World Blitz.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

"Can one give Carlsen the benefit of the doubt here? He hadn't pressed his clock, and I am under the impression (without having bothered to check) than in blitz - as opposed to rapidplay - the move is only complete when the clock is pressed. ("Touch-move" may still apply but then he was happy to move his king to another square). So either he was allowed to change his move or at least thought he was entitled to do so."

The move is made when you've let go of the piece.
The move is completed when you've pressed your clock.

So in this case, Carlsen made an illegal move.

It wasn't an illegal move, it simply blundered a rook. A backwards bishop skewer after bishop f2+, picking up the rook on b6. Carlsen, before he made this blunder, was in fact rook for bishop and two pawns, only one of which was passed. But really, I think Nepo suckered Carlsen into that one. Moving the king forward somewhere is an obvious move for White, and by putting the bishop on e1, Nepo set up the Bf2 skewer if Carlsen moved the king to the wrong square, which he did. Game over.

Carlsen actually looked at the clock, rather than the board, as he was making the fatal move! Moved the king forward to d4, took his hand off the king, and milliseconds later realised his mistake. His hand was about halfway to the clock when it came back and moved the king to c4. Instinctive reaction, I think, and understandable. After moving the king from d4 to c4, he pressed the clock at the same time as Nepo was pointing at the d4 square and objecting.

Carlsen then looked at Nepo quizzically, said something that might have been "are you sure?" Nepo stopped the clock and pointed at the d4 square again, and at that point Carlsen with a wave of his hand accepted his fate and they shook hands. Annoyingly, someone moved in front of the camera, so half of Carlsen's facial expressions are lost apart from a brief glimpse of him looking rather tight-lipped.

EDIT: Apologies, it was Savchenko that Carlsen was playing in this game, not Nepomniachtchi!

[Alex Holowczak]

I can't see the video at Uni, however my above comment is still true regardless of the word "illegal" in the last sentence.

As soon as you've made the move, you then can't do anything about it.

[Alan Walton]

An interesting statistic from this tournament

If you take the competition only for the top ten players you get the following scores

1. Karjakin 13/18 (final pos 6th)
2. Radjabov 11/18 (2nd)
3. Carlsen 10.5/18 (3rd)
4. Nakamura 10/18 (5th)
5. Kramnik 8.5/18 (7th)
6. Aronian 8/18 (1st)
7. Svidler 8/18 (9th)
8. Mamedyarov 7.5/18 (8th)
9. Eljanov 7/18 (10th)
10. Gelfand 6/18 (4th)

I think this shows that Aronian played very well against the out of form players, but Karjakin's perfomance against the top rated players was a stand out result

[Maria Yurenok]

I'm sure Bernard Cafferty told me it meant 'I don't have a name'

Bernard got Russian words mixed up. 'I don't have a name' would be written like this: Безымянный - which is also the name of a ring finger and which is quite different to Непомнящий.

Thanks Alan for this interesting information about Karjakin. I kind of support him.

[John Saunders]

Incidentally, Nepomnniachtchi means forgetful quoth Maria.

I'm sure Bernard Cafferty told me it meant 'I don't have a name'

James, you may think you are sure but I am sure you are quite wrong! Bernard has told me several times that it means 'not remembering'.

Elsewhere on the thread someone has referred to Carlsen playing Nepomnyashchy (I think this is Bernard's preferred spelling) in the game under discussion when he was actually playing Savchenko. A major outbreak of 'forgetfulness' all round, really.

[James Pratt]

tactfully put.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

tactfully put.

Yeah, getting the name of Carlsen's opponent wrong was my mistake. I've now edited the original post to note my mistake, but not overwritten what I originally wrote, as that was such a monumental blunder it will remind me to always double-check that sort of thing. Not that I would have had any hope of recognising either Nepomniachtchi or Savchenko, but John did give the names and the website does give pictures for all of them. I had just been reading the other posts about Nepomniachtchi's name, and I guess that the name stuck in my head and I bizarrely assumed that he was the player in question.

[Michael Jones]

Of course, in a real-life blitz game, you can't pre-move...

Or can you? I'm pretty sure that on some of those videos I can see more than one player pick up a piece before his opponent has pressed the clock (Kramnik does it against Nakamura for one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHrg8Lib0WU about nine seconds in). Since, as Alex reminds us, a move is not completed until one has pressed the clock, I presume this is illegal.

[Alex Holowczak]

Of course, in a real-life blitz game, you can't pre-move...

Or can you? I'm pretty sure that on some of those videos I can see more than one player pick up a piece before his opponent has pressed the clock (Kramnik does it against Nakamura for one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHrg8Lib0WU about nine seconds in). Since, as Alex reminds us, a move is not completed until one has pressed the clock, I presume this is illegal.

Not at all:

4.6 When, as a legal move or part of a legal move, a piece has been released on a square, it cannot be moved to another square on this move. The move is then considered to have been made ...

6.7a. During the game each player, having made his move on the chessboard, shall stop his own clock and start his opponent’s clock. A player must always be allowed to stop his clock.

So you can move as soon as your opponent has made - not completed - his move. The player is not obliged to ever stop his clock if he doesn't want to.

[Michael Jones]

What constitutes 'allowed'? If a player makes a move, then retracts his hand and resumes a 'thinking' pose, he has clearly had the opportunity to press his clock but forgotten (or for some reason decided not) to do so. If he makes a move then reaches for the clock, but his opponent makes a move before he presses it, does that count as having been deprived of the opportunity to do so, or has he still been 'allowed' even if his opponent will then press it immediately, having made his own move in the meantime?

4.6 When, as a legal move or part of a legal move, a piece has been released on a square, it cannot be moved to another square on this move. The move is then considered to have been made ...

So does that mean that if a player castles, the move is considered to have been 'made' when he releases the king, so his opponent may make a reply before the first player has even touched the rook?

[Alex Holowczak]

What constitutes 'allowed'? If a player makes a move, then retracts his hand and resumes a 'thinking' pose, he has clearly had the opportunity to press his clock but forgotten (or for some reason decided not) to do so. If he makes a move then reaches for the clock, but his opponent makes a move before he presses it, does that count as having been deprived of the opportunity to do so, or has he still been 'allowed' even if his opponent will then press it immediately, having made his own move in the meantime?

Allowed means that if the move has been made, he's allowed to press his clock. I.e. nothing should be there to prevent the player from pressing it. He is at liberty to stop his clock. If A moves, B moves before A has stopped his clock, A may still stop his clock regardless. As soon as A moves again, then he has forfeited the right to stop the clock for A's first move of the sequence. He has deprived himself of the opportunity to stop his own clock, if you like.

4.6 When, as a legal move or part of a legal move, a piece has been released on a square, it cannot be moved to another square on this move. The move is then considered to have been made ...

So does that mean that if a player castles, the move is considered to have been 'made' when he releases the king, so his opponent may make a reply before the first player has even touched the rook?

I truncated 4.6. The rule in full:

4.6 When, as a legal move or part of a legal move, a piece has been released on a square, it cannot be moved to another square on this move. The move is then considered to have been made:

a. in the case of a capture, when the captured piece has been removed from the chessboard and the player, having placed his own piece on its new square, has released this capturing piece from his hand

b. in the case of castling, when the player's hand has released the rook on the square previously crossed by the king. When the player has released the king from his hand, the move is not yet made, but the player no longer has the right to make any move other than castling on that side, if this is legal

c. in the case of the promotion of a pawn, when the pawn has been removed from the chessboard and the player's hand has released the new piece after placing it on the promotion square. If the player has released from his hand the pawn that has reached the promotion square, the move is not yet made, but the player no longer has the right to play the pawn to another square.

So if you castle, you can't move your King to g1, let go, then suddenly decide to put it on f1 instead. Once you release your King on g1, you're obliged to castle kingside, assuming the move is legal. The same sort of logic can be applied to a. and c. above.

[LozCooper]

As the rules talk about stopping your own clock does this mean your opponent can legally move before his clock has been started? With an analogue clock this would be quite possible but less so with a digital

[Alex Holowczak]

As the rules talk about stopping your own clock does this mean your opponent can legally move before his clock has been started?

Yes

[Michael Jones]

Ah thanks, that makes more sense.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

So you can move as soon as your opponent has made - not completed - his move. The player is not obliged to ever stop his clock if he doesn't want to.

This is problematic in increment play when each player is getting time added for each move. I would be very surprised if in increment play there is not an obligation to press the clock after each move. I had this problem in the recent e2e4 congress in Brighton when one of my opponents (returning to chess after a long absence) would at times forget to press his clock. Most of the time he would remember, but it was mildly distracting, and the times he did forget, I had to remind him as otherwise I would not have received the extra 30 seconds for my move.