New number one England player

The very latest International round up of English news.
Ian Jamieson
Posts: 203
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:00 pm

Re: New number one England player

Post by Ian Jamieson » Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:10 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 8:58 pm
Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 5:19 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 5:17 pm

I thought he was living in Spain.
So has he been ‘headhunted’ so to speak, or is this just a random event?
The unknowns at the moment are why he wanted to be registered as ENG and how he satisfied the ECF's criteria for doing so (assuming they apply to transfers as well as initial registrations)?
Presumably the criteria don’t apply if you are strong enough and / or it was the ECF which asked him if he was interested in transferring.

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 1916
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: New number one England player

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:17 pm

Ian Jamieson wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:10 pm
Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 8:58 pm
Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 5:19 pm
So has he been ‘headhunted’ so to speak, or is this just a random event?
The unknowns at the moment are why he wanted to be registered as ENG and how he satisfied the ECF's criteria for doing so (assuming they apply to transfers as well as initial registrations)?
Presumably the criteria don’t apply if you are strong enough and / or it was the ECF which asked him if he was interested in transferring.
What "criteria" exactly? Am I missing something from the ECF webpage mentioned?

Ian Thompson
Posts: 3561
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: New number one England player

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:24 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:17 pm
Ian Jamieson wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:10 pm
Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 8:58 pm

The unknowns at the moment are why he wanted to be registered as ENG and how he satisfied the ECF's criteria for doing so (assuming they apply to transfers as well as initial registrations)?
Presumably the criteria don’t apply if you are strong enough and / or it was the ECF which asked him if he was interested in transferring.
What "criteria" exactly? Am I missing something from the ECF webpage mentioned?
"If the player is resident outside of England, the person making the request must be able to satisfy the Federation that they are eligible to be registered as English under the FIDE regulations by being either a citizen, naturalized or a resident. We expect these players applying for a FIN to be members of the ECF and at least at Bronze level. "

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 5839
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: New number one England player

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:51 pm

"Presumably the criteria don’t apply if you are strong enough and / or it was the ECF which asked him if he was interested in transferring."

There goes Rishi's money!

Ian Jamieson
Posts: 203
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:00 pm

Re: New number one England player

Post by Ian Jamieson » Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:17 pm

I’m also looking forward to seeing if there is as much disagreement in English chess to Vitiugov’s transfer as there was to Matthew Turner’s transfer to SCO in Scottish chess.

Will Vitiugov be eligible to win the English / British Championship if he wants / is allowed to play in either championship?

Edit I assume Vitiugov will be eligible to play for England or else why is he transferring?

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21322
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: New number one England player

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:07 am

Ian Jamieson wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:17 pm

Will Vitiugov be eligible to win the English / British Championship if he wants / is allowed to play in either championship?

Edit I assume Vitiugov will be eligible to play for England or else why is he transferring?
The British Championship is moderately stringent in that players have to be eligible for British or Irish citizenship or lived in either country for a length of time. Various titled players who have moved to other Federations are still eligible to play.


In FIDE events, a new player is eligible once a period of time has elapsed since his last appearance for someone else.

Ian Jamieson
Posts: 203
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:00 pm

Re: New number one England player

Post by Ian Jamieson » Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:27 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:07 am
Ian Jamieson wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:17 pm

Will Vitiugov be eligible to win the English / British Championship if he wants / is allowed to play in either championship?

Edit I assume Vitiugov will be eligible to play for England or else why is he transferring?
The British Championship is moderately stringent in that players have to be eligible for British or Irish citizenship or lived in either country for a length of time. Various titled players who have moved to other Federations are still eligible to play.


In FIDE events, a new player is eligible once a period of time has elapsed since his last appearance for someone else.
In Matthew Turner’s case either he didn’t want to take a Scottish player’s place or it was the only way his transfer to SCO would be agreed or a combination of both but as far as I am aware he hasn’t played for SCO although I think he may have been awarded the Scottish title at least one year but not without arguments from players who thought he shouldn’t have been eligible.

Edit yes, Edinburgh 2019 along with Colin McNab

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21322
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: New number one England player

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 30, 2023 1:08 am

Ian Jamieson wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:27 am
although I think he may have been awarded the Scottish title at least one year but not without arguments from players who thought he shouldn’t have been eligible.
The rules for the English Championship are quite stringent and exclude players who identify as Welsh, Scottish, Irish or anywhere not ENG.
Players must be born in England or have lived in England for at least the preceding 12 months. In addition if they have a FIDE registration, it must be ENG.
If Scotland had a similar rule, Matthew would not I think have been eligible for their Championship as I believe he lives in Somerset and was only Scottish by parentage. But then the Scottish Championship from time to time has invited players with high ratings who aren't SCO in order to create Norm chances.

Ian Jamieson
Posts: 203
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:00 pm

Re: New number one England player

Post by Ian Jamieson » Wed Aug 30, 2023 1:53 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2023 1:08 am
Ian Jamieson wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:27 am
although I think he may have been awarded the Scottish title at least one year but not without arguments from players who thought he shouldn’t have been eligible.
The rules for the English Championship are quite stringent and exclude players who identify as Welsh, Scottish, Irish or anywhere not ENG.
Players must be born in England or have lived in England for at least the preceding 12 months. In addition if they have a FIDE registration, it must be ENG.
If Scotland had a similar rule, Matthew would not I think have been eligible for their Championship as I believe he lives in Somerset and was only Scottish by parentage. But then the Scottish Championship from time to time has invited players with high ratings who aren't SCO in order to create Norm chances.
I’m not even sure where his parents are from. My understanding is he was allowed to transfer to SCO in recognition of the coaching and other support he had given to Scottish junior teams.

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 1916
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: New number one England player

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed Aug 30, 2023 7:40 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:24 pm
Roger Lancaster wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:17 pm
Ian Jamieson wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:10 pm

Presumably the criteria don’t apply if you are strong enough and / or it was the ECF which asked him if he was interested in transferring.
What "criteria" exactly? Am I missing something from the ECF webpage mentioned?
"If the player is resident outside of England, the person making the request must be able to satisfy the Federation that they are eligible to be registered as English under the FIDE regulations by being either a citizen, naturalized or a resident. We expect these players applying for a FIN to be members of the ECF and at least at Bronze level. "
Thanks, Ian. Last I know, he was resident in Spain but - if he has now moved to England - that would seem to meet the FIDE regulations so why the fuss? This sort of thing happens all the time - are we trying to discourage strong GMs from moving to England? Politically, if that's the unspoken reason, as far as I can see he has been outspoken since early days of his opposition to the invasion of Ukraine.

Angus French
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 am

Re: New number one England player

Post by Angus French » Wed Aug 30, 2023 8:42 am

I'm guessing that Vitiugov will help with the training of England's up-and-coming players, as part of the Government-funded plan. Might there be other transfers to come? When will the ECF put out a statement?

Matt Bridgeman
Posts: 1077
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:21 pm

Re: New number one England player

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Wed Aug 30, 2023 8:58 am

Malcolm Pein has taken credit on Facebook. So presumably there may be other FIDE flags in the works?

Ian Thompson
Posts: 3561
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: New number one England player

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed Aug 30, 2023 9:33 am

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2023 7:40 am
Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:24 pm
Roger Lancaster wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:17 pm


What "criteria" exactly? Am I missing something from the ECF webpage mentioned?
"If the player is resident outside of England, the person making the request must be able to satisfy the Federation that they are eligible to be registered as English under the FIDE regulations by being either a citizen, naturalized or a resident. We expect these players applying for a FIN to be members of the ECF and at least at Bronze level. "
Thanks, Ian. Last I know, he was resident in Spain but - if he has now moved to England - that would seem to meet the FIDE regulations so why the fuss? This sort of thing happens all the time - are we trying to discourage strong GMs from moving to England?
I did say "The unknowns at the moment are why he wanted to be registered as ENG ...". If the answer is that he's moved to England that's a good reason, but no-one seems to know that.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 5839
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: New number one England player

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Aug 30, 2023 9:42 am

I would have thought that the ECF website should be proclaiming the news. Or is Malcolm the official spokesman now for all ECF news? You just have to guess where he has said it. Was it New York Times last time? (EDIT - just view this place!)

I guess it does make England almost the last country to have a (former) Russian GM.

Mick Norris
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: New number one England player

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Aug 30, 2023 10:08 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2023 9:42 am
I guess it does make England almost the last country to have a (former) Russian GM
You can look at the list on the FIDE website under FIDE Flag Players

Serbia have picked up a few, not sure if Fedoseev to Slovenia is the highest rated prior to Vitiugov

It's on the ECF Facebook page now
Last edited by Mick Norris on Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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