44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

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David Sedgwick
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:57 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:47 pm
Sorry Lawrence, I linked to the wrong thing (fiddling on a phone). I will amend (EDIT) and have done so.
The result is given as 0-0 on ChessResults. Presumably the arbiters believed that the repetition of position was premeditated. It is not hard to see how they might have reached that conclusion.
Last edited by David Sedgwick on Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nick Ivell
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Nick Ivell » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:33 pm

Sorry to be pedantic. Repetition of permission?

Paul Cooksey
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:45 pm

This seems a bit elitist to me. We established we were ok with people in the Olympiad being weak chess players already, surely we should extend the same rule to prearranged draws? Do they really have to learn some Berlin theory?

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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by A.Kluckova » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:11 pm

Uzbekistan is seed 14 , currently the third team in Open section and year of birth from board 1 to 5 is 2004, 2002, 2005, 1995, 2002 . 4 of them are still juniors.

Chris Rice
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:27 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:57 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:47 pm
Sorry Lawrence, I linked to the wrong thing (fiddling on a phone). I will amend (EDIT) and have done so.
The result is given as 0-0 on ChessResults. Presumably the arbiters believed that the repetition of permission was premeditated. It is not hard to see how they might have reached that conclusion.
No verification but I'm hearing it was a double default because of unsportsmanlike conduct:


Roger de Coverly
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:36 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:45 pm
Do they really have to learn some Berlin theory?
I'm not sure there is a forced draw in the Berlin. Elsewhere in the Spanish, there's the Zaitsev repetition as well as that complicated line the Ukrainian sisters keep on playing. These lines do at least have the merit that avoiding the repetition can lead one of the players into a worse position. That's not the case with playing Nf3-g1-f3 etc.

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JustinHorton
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:42 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:36 pm
I'm not sure there is a forced draw in the Berlin.
Depends how tightly you define "forced draw"
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:51 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:42 pm
Depends how tightly you define "forced draw"
Almost forced threefold repetition rather than a deadly dull position.

Arguably the sequence 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. d3 d6 5. Nc3 Nf6 and similar is as dull as dishwater, but the GMs have found ideas in recent years to play for an advantage.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:52 pm

Oh dear. I suppose you do have to be consistent, as it would be difficult to know where to draw the line here with people drawing like that. It does seem to favour those 'in the know' about how to agree a draw 'properly'.

David Sedgwick
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:19 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:33 pm
Sorry to be pedantic. Repetition of permission?
Thank you. I have made the requisite correction.

David Sedgwick
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:28 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:45 pm
This seems a bit elitist to me. We established we were ok with people in the Olympiad being weak chess players already, surely we should extend the same rule to prearranged draws? Do they really have to learn some Berlin theory?
Nowadays prearranged draws are considered to be cheating and arbiters are trained to treat them accordingly.

The two players involved were not weak, at least not in the context of the earlier discussion. Both of them were rated over 2000.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:22 am

How many times have we had THAT Berlin draw in this event btw?
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:28 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:28 pm
Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:45 pm
This seems a bit elitist to me. We established we were ok with people in the Olympiad being weak chess players already, surely we should extend the same rule to prearranged draws? Do they really have to learn some Berlin theory?
Nowadays prearranged draws are considered to be cheating and arbiters are trained to treat them accordingly.

The two players involved were not weak, at least not in the context of the earlier discussion. Both of them were rated over 2000.
I take your point about them not being weak, but even strong players are not always aware of the rules. Is there no room for a warning mechanism? And how do you know it was prearranged? Maybe one of them felt ill and suggested a draw at the start of play?

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JustinHorton
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:29 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:51 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:42 pm
Depends how tightly you define "forced draw"
Almost forced threefold repetition rather than a deadly dull position.
If we're talking about the same line then Black csn deviate earlier, albeit at his or her considerable risk (I've had the opportunity to do so more than once on lichess but have declined, perhaps unwisely as it might be worth the practice).
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:10 am

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:14 pm
Well, David, 10 to beat!
Becomes less likely with him being rested today.
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