Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

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JustinHorton
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:12 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:46 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:34 pm
Also I see Ding v Naka is a last-round pairing
If they make the same result in round 13, and are at least as clearly ahead of Radja as they are now, there will be tiebreak talk ahead of the game, since in the event of a draw, the player with the better tiebreak might - might - play a match with Nepo.

Can someone tell me what the rules are (because I am lazy, but others must be curious too)? They have three wins and two losses each so it is not immediately obvious. Unless it is the number of Black wins!
Sonneborn-Berger, I think
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David Sedgwick
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:20 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:46 pm
Can someone tell me what the [tiebreak] rules are ...
Yes, I can. :lol:

Slightly more helpfully:

Tournament Regulation 4.4.2.3:

"If there is no tie for first place after 14 rounds, ties for all positions shall be broken according to the following criteria, in
order of priority:
a) Sonneborn-Berger System;
b) Total number of wins in the tournament;
c) The results of the games between the players involved in the tie;
d) Drawing of lots."

Edit: Justin got there first.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:30 pm

Thank you both. I had no idea that SB was the first tie breaker. (Perhaps it isn't, as far as first place is concerned - would there have been a play-off then?)

But you underestimate my laziness. Assume that Naka and Ding each draw in round 13 - who would have the better SB then?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:34 pm

Nakamura. Half a point extra against the tournament leader goes a fair way.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:55 pm

"Half a point extra against the tournament leader goes a fair way."

I guess it does with this leader! Thanks Jack.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:48 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:30 pm
(Perhaps it isn't, as far as first place is concerned - would there have been a play-off then?)
Yes

NickFaulks
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:49 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:48 pm
Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:30 pm
(Perhaps it isn't, as far as first place is concerned - would there have been a play-off then?)
Yes
The regulations were drafted on the basis that only first place would matter. Even if it had been foreseen that second ( or even third ) place might matter, it would have been awkward to put that in print.
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Paul Cooksey
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:01 am

I am hoping Naka gets second, seems to me an incentive for Magnus to play! :D

NickFaulks
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:11 am

Would Naka want to play? Perhaps, if he could stream it.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:00 am

Which is more awkward in the current international climate?

(1) A Norwegian and a Russian chessplayer contesting the World Title?
(2) A Russian and an American chessplayer contesting the World Title?
(3) A Russian and a Chinese chessplayer contesting the World Title?
(4) All the above?

(Has anyone under the FID flag ever become World Champion? I am going to guess the answer is "no".)

Nick Burrows
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:49 am

So a match that both the general public and the world champion don't have much interest in. Hmmm

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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:52 pm

What match would the general public and the World Champion have much interest in? It could have been Carlsen Firouzja, but do we really want finishing last in the Candidates to be the qualifying condition?
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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:21 pm

Its hard to tell how serious MC was with that "I only want to play Firouzja" comment.

As opposed to him being more generally weary of defending his title every two years (at most) which I can certainly believe.
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Geoff Chandler
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:19 pm

Apparently Carlsen in Madrid for the last few rounds.
If so then we should discover soon what is going to happen.

Carlsen v Nepo II (preferred)
Nepo v A.N. Other (if so, then so be it)
Carlsen retires the title and it is given to Caruana as he was last challenger (Nah!)
A.N. Other v A.N. Other (Nepo refuses to play anyone unless he plays Carlsen.)
We could play this 'what if' game all day.

Of course he might just be there to visit the Real Madrid club shop to pick up next season's top.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Madrid Candidates 16th June to Tue 5th Jul 2022

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:36 pm

Well, Nepo is never going to lose this position against Rapport (move 20, double rooks and same-colour bishops and better pawn structure). The Firouzja-Ding position (move 28) is very drawish as well. The Nakamura-Duda position (move 18) is unbalanced and interesting. Ditto (if slightly less interesting) for Radjabov-Caruana (move 19)