44th Chess Olympiad, Moscow

[JustinHorton]

I think the idea that politics could be kept out of sport died with the apartheid boycott, and I don't think it can be resurrected.

[NickFaulks]

I think the idea that politics could be kept out of sport died with the apartheid boycott, and I don't think it can be resurrected.

I'm not sure that has to be true. To me, the compelling case against South Africa's cricket team was not that their government excluded a section of the population from normal life, but that the cricket authorities excluded them from playing representative cricket. If their basketball team had somehow managed to run on a multiracial basis, I think we should have played against them ( but we wouldn't have ).

[Gerard Killoran]

So much for Kashmir, eh?

You could say the same about Ireland, possibly you would.

If you try hard enough, you can find a reason not to play chess anywhere.

The ECF/BCF was never concerned with the victims of Britain's (or its allies) invasions and occupations of other countries.

As for trying hard enough, how hard is it to recognise war crimes and oppression?

It's also quite ironic for FIDE to choose India, given Modi's ambivalent attitude to the invasion of Ukraine.

https://www.vox.com/22982698/india-russ ... putin-modi

[JustinHorton]

I'm not sure that has to be true. To me, the compelling case against South Africa's cricket team was not that their government excluded a section of the population from normal life, but that the cricket authorities excluded them from playing representative cricket.

My recollection is that for a period there was a pretence of having multiracial teams representing South Africa on the various sanctions-breaking tours, but it was very obvious that these were a front (as of course they had to be, given the whole point of apartheid was not to have such teams).

[NickFaulks]

As for trying hard enough, how hard is it to recognise war crimes and oppression?

It's far too easy, that's the point. You wouldn't play anywhere.

It's also quite ironic for FIDE to choose India, given Modi's ambivalent attitude to the invasion of Ukraine.

So that's most of Asia and Africa ruled out. Why not just be honest and rename it the EU / NATO Championships?

[JustinHorton]

Well we might not even do that, given that Turkey is a member of NATO and remains in control of half of Cyprus, or that (say) Spain is a member of both the EU and NATO and remains in possession of colonial teritories in Africa.

So we can say "boycott nothing", or we can say "boycott everything or nothing", or we can say "boycott something when it outrages European opinion, and otherwise do nothing", or other variations on the theme. Or we can talk sensibly about when boycotts might or might not be appropriate and effective.

[Kevin Thurlow]

The irony was that when South Africa used non-white players in their cricket team, there was a quota, with a minimum number of non-white players, leading to Jacques Rudolph being abused by Australian opponents along the lines of, "You're only playing because of the quota". So the team selection remained racist although with a different slant.

I agree that boycotts are difficult, as (virtually) every country has done bad things at some stage.

[JustinHorton]

The irony was that when South Africa used non-white players in their cricket team, there was a quota, with a minimum number of non-white players, leading to Jacques Rudolph being abused by Australian opponents along the lines of, "You're only playing because of the quota".

I think that might have been down to racism rather than the quota

[Gerard Killoran]

As for trying hard enough, how hard is it to recognise war crimes and oppression?

It's far too easy, that's the point. You wouldn't play anywhere.

It's also quite ironic for FIDE to choose India, given Modi's ambivalent attitude to the invasion of Ukraine.

So that's most of Asia and Africa ruled out. Why not just be honest and rename it the EU / NATO Championships?

I believe that the government whose crimes you should protest against most of all is the one you live under and pay taxes to, because those protests have the most effect. For example, British sports people and their organisations could have refused to play under the national flag and declared solidarity with the Iraqi, Afghan, Libyan, Chagos (...I could go on) people, but they never considered it for a second. The lack of self-awareness would be staggering if it wasn't so deliberate it could be a national characteristic. It's almost funny when Gordon Brown calls for the prosecution of Putin for launching an aggressive war. If truth is the first casualty of war, irony comes a close second.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"I think that might have been down to racism rather than the quota"

Sure, but the quota was racist itself. At the time, South Africa did not have many international class non-white players (because of the earlier system), which is why various white South African cricketers went to other countries to play Test cricket.

[JustinHorton]

Sure, but the quota was racist itself.

Pity's sake man, have a little word with yourself before describing a rule that stopped teams being all-white in actual post-apartheid South Africa as being "racist".

[Kevin Thurlow]

"Pity's sake man, have a little word with yourself before describing a rule that stopped teams being all-white in actual post-apartheid South Africa as being "racist"."

But it was - there were players selected because of the colour of their skin, not through ability. (Hence defections of white players to Australia and England.) It took time for the best SA team to be selected. Ntini was always worth his place. Rudolph was certainly a good player, and the attitude of some of the Australians was appalling. Let's talk facts, not political agenda. (Yes, I know...)

[JustinHorton]

But it was - there were players selected because of the colour of their skin, not through ability..... Let's talk facts, not political agenda. (Yes, I know...)

As I say, give your head a wobble. Have a think about how it looks before you start telling people who'd suffered apartheid that it was racist, or that not having an all-white team was "a political agenda".

I mean really, why do you think these methods were considered necessary? Why do you think they had an all-white team without them?

[Mick Norris]

Pete Doggers

In May 2018, a few months before Dvorkovich took office, FIDE was in dire straits when its Swiss bank account was frozen because the then-incumbent president Kirsan Ilyumzhinov had appeared on a sanctions list of the U.S. Department of the Treasury. This time, FIDE doesn't seem to be running such risk despite having accounts with two banks that have been sanctioned by the U.S., namely Sberbank and Otkrytie.

[Kevin Thurlow]

I have a dream that one day people will listen to what I say. Of course apartheid was awful. I was merely pointing out that by insisting on having players in a team, purely because of their colour, not ability, is racist as well. One of life's ironies. I also pointed out that they probably were not as talented because they had fewer opportunities and worse facilities when they were learning the game.
I'm sure everyone else is bored with this, and I will speak no more.