Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:10 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:41 pm
Chris Goodall wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:20 pm
I think the current format of world title matches is toast. Omniscient computers killed it. It used to be a good thing if you played a move that took your opponent by surprise. Now it means your opponent's computer thinks it's a mistake. There will never be another 14.Nb1 :cry:

....
or 11 Ng5 or 8... d5 ?

it is a thought, that we generally lack examples of big opening discoveries at World ch level. We see rather side lines (Anand's ... Bb7 in the Meran against Kramnik) or previously unfashionable lines (Kramnik's Berlin wall) having been analysed in more depth than the opponent could have done.
What was the most recent outstanding example of this - maybe Gazza's rook sacrifice as White in 1995 against Anand in the Open Ruy Lopez?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:34 pm

I was thinking about that earlier. I guess I was thinking of early innovations. Kasparov's was a very deep line from a well known opening sequence. But at this level we expect those more than we do very early opening deviations.

Nick Ivell
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Nick Ivell » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:44 pm

The players are simply better, in almost every respect.

Look at the mistakes Spassky made in 1972. You don't see that now.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:13 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:16 am
Make the match longer (the longer it is the less likely it will be all draws) ....
I would love this. But then I'm not paying for it.

I suspect matches got shorter precisely because that made them more appealing to sponsors. I don't see a return to 20+ game matches to be honest.

But then again I'm not sure I see many more world championship matches of any length. Maybe one more after this one.

Hopefully I'll be wrong.

Paul Heaton
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Paul Heaton » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:37 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:44 pm

Look at the mistakes Spassky made in 1972. You don't see that now.
Game 6 in Sochi 2014 had the double blunder, where both sides missed a simple tactic that would have left Anand winning.
Game 10 in 2016 saw Karjakin miss the forced repetition, which would have left him one up but two to go.

There is footage of Lombardy analysing the 2016 games surprised at the quantum of mistakes.

Though I agree with your general point the standard of play has advanced a great deal.

Chris Rice
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:40 am

Have to say I'm finding the chat about the table more interesting than the match at the moment.
Nick Burrows wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:35 pm
The table is awful
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:57 pm
Luckily, the players cannot see the adverts. I have to say the Fischer - Spassky tables I have seen in Iceland look rather more solid and well-made.
Richard Bates wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:25 pm
Do they have to turn the table round every day so the flags line up? ;)
(assuming the other side of the table has the same design on it with flags reversed)
FIDE "In the past, the tables used in title matches had a starring role and many of them are still kept in museums or private collections. At Carlsen v Nepomniachtchi, we wanted to honour this tradition and restore the table to its former importance.

The table taken as a main reference for the 2021 FIDE World Championship Match was the table used at the 17th Chess Olympiad in Havana. A blog about the unique design idea behind the championship table:"

Image

Havana 1966 inspires Dubai

"FIDE wanted to honour this tradition and restore the table to its former importance. The first idea was to build an exact replica of the legendary table used by Bobby Fischer and Boris Spassky in their 1972 match, which will soon celebrate its 50th anniversary. That iconic piece was created by Icelandic furniture designer Gunnar Magnússon, to whom FIDE wanted to pay tribute. However, due to contractual obligations established half a century ago, building a replica was not possible."

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MJMcCready
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:05 pm

Which country was the table made in? It wasn't China was it?

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:46 pm

"The first idea was to build an exact replica of the legendary table used by Bobby Fischer and Boris Spassky in their 1972 match, which will soon celebrate its 50th anniversary."

Although... The nearby museum had the table set up, https://www.reykjavikopen.com/exhibitio ... al-museum/ (although I think it is now not on display), and there was another one in the Fischer Centre http://www.fischersetur.is/index.cfm?CF ... /start_en1

I think they said theirs was a replica, as you can actually touch it.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:04 pm

Carlsen offering a pawn again, then.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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MJMcCready
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:16 pm

Bxf6 is a little surprising.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:47 pm

Magnus seems a little off form to me. How did he end up with his queen on a2?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:47 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:16 pm
Bxf6 is a little surprising.
Presumbly the idea is to eventually exploit the doubled pawns in some way.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Ian Thompson » Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:56 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:16 am
Make the match longer (the longer it is the less likely it will be all draws) but reinstate that the holder retains the title in a tied match.

Short matches with both players looking almost from the start at the tiebreaks is definitely *part* of the problem.
An alternative that doesn't give the holder draw odds would be to play the tie breaks first. One player would then know they had to win the main match and would presumably take increasingly large risks to do so as the match progressed.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:10 pm

Would they ever consider scrapping the current format and allowing the players to draw for colours just before each game do you think?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:27 pm

Drawing for colours before each game sounds implausible. Before each pair of games, maybe.

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