Hornets Nest Stirred
-
- Posts: 7262
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
- Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Hornets Nest Stirred
A lively debate is likely to follow a post from Pete Doggers entitled
FIDE Likely To Make It Harder To Become A Grandmaster, But Will It Be Enough?
Opinions?
FIDE Likely To Make It Harder To Become A Grandmaster, But Will It Be Enough?
Opinions?
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess
-
- Posts: 4837
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
- Location: Bideford
Re: Hornets Nest Stirred
I think they are trying to address a problem that is not the problem they have.
(The issue is not that the title requirements are lax, it is that FIDE have no way of checking that a norm result was achieved in good faith, and you can't affect that by changing the title requirements.)
(The issue is not that the title requirements are lax, it is that FIDE have no way of checking that a norm result was achieved in good faith, and you can't affect that by changing the title requirements.)
-
- Posts: 2154
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 am
Re: Hornets Nest Stirred
If Abhimanyu Mishra achieved his GM norm from the results listed by Lennart Ootes then I think it could be argued there is a quality issue. The results listed are the minimum required which is 27 and, at a glance, I can see they include three results against one player and two results against each of four other players... Having said this, I'm guessing that norms are permitted from double-round-robin events.
-
- Posts: 4837
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
- Location: Bideford
Re: Hornets Nest Stirred
Some of that's just the way of these things, of course. For example, Ravi Haria's two recent GM norms both include games against Fodor and Turner, which is a natural consequence of Fodor and Turner both being England-based GMs not registered with England, and thus highly sought after by title norm events.
-
- Posts: 5262
- Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
- Location: Millom, Cumbria
Re: Hornets Nest Stirred
Of course they are, why wouldn't they be?Angus French wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:56 pmHaving said this, I'm guessing that norms are permitted from double-round-robin events.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
-
- Posts: 2154
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 am
Re: Hornets Nest Stirred
Because I think a better test might be to play as many different people as possible.Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:20 pmOf course they are, why wouldn't they be?Angus French wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:56 pmHaving said this, I'm guessing that norms are permitted from double-round-robin events.
-
- Posts: 21350
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Hornets Nest Stirred
Insisting that a Norm was only valid if it was against players different from those in any previous Norm would be a possible if arbitrary method of making IM and GM titles more difficult to obtain.Angus French wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:37 pmBecause I think a better test might be to play as many different people as possible.
I suppose with the insistence on using computer based pairings, the opportunity that pairing card shuffling gave arbiters to maximise Norm chances in Swiss tournaments has now disappeared.
With perhaps a little more difficulty, team tournaments can still deliver specially selected opposition.
-
- Posts: 4837
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
- Location: Bideford
Re: Hornets Nest Stirred
1.42g is specifically aimed at curbing some of the worst abuses known to have gone on:
1.42g Tournaments that make changes to favour one or more players (for example by altering the number of rounds, or the order of rounds, or providing particular opponents, not otherwise participating in the event), shall be excluded.
-
- Posts: 7280
- Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am
Re: Hornets Nest Stirred
I couldn't find anything in the FIDE title regulations preventing a norm for a player having all whites and playing the same opponent more than once with the same colour as could happen in the 4NCL.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:46 pmWith perhaps a little more difficulty, team tournaments can still deliver specially selected opposition.
-
- Posts: 3452
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm
Re: Hornets Nest Stirred
LawrenceCooper wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:46 amI couldn't find anything in the FIDE title regulations preventing a norm for a player having all whites and playing the same opponent more than once with the same colour as could happen in the 4NCL.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:46 pmWith perhaps a little more difficulty, team tournaments can still deliver specially selected opposition.
Bill Hartston told me - http://streathambrixtonchess.blogspot.c ... tston.html -
that he didn't think norms gained at an Olympiad should count. He doesn't say so in the interview but I think is point you could pick and choose your games. Didn't Stean get one norm (at Haifa?) when he had White 7 games out of 10 or some such? I may be misremembering.
IM Jack Rudd wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:16 pm1.42g is specifically aimed at curbing some of the worst abuses known to have gone on:
1.42g Tournaments that make changes to favour one or more players (for example by altering the number of rounds, or the order of rounds, or providing particular opponents, not otherwise participating in the event), shall be excluded.
So would that invalidate any norms scored by anybody at a British Championship at which the Perts weren't paired together when they should have been?
I assume that hasn't actually happened (I assume I'd have heard about it if it had), but I don't see anything in the rule 1.42g as quoted by Jack that explains why it didn't happen.
The Abysmal Depths of Chess: https://theabysmaldepthsofchess.blogspot.com
-
- Posts: 21350
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Hornets Nest Stirred
In the era not so long ago before they used the Swiss Manager pairings, arbiters would use CAA rules, which seemingly can be subject to interpretation. At one British where both Perts were playing, the pairings weren't published for a round until after midnight. Whether the cause was arbiter disagreement over interpretation or something else wasn't revealed. In the event there was still a Pert v Pert pairing later in the tournament.Jonathan Bryant wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:04 pmSo would that invalidate any norms scored by anybody at a British Championship at which the Perts weren't paired together when they should have been?
-
- Posts: 3341
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:27 pm
Re: Hornets Nest Stirred
Don't understand what the purpose of this is. Is there a suggestion that there is something untowards in the norms/titles obtained by certain players? If so then such suggestions should be tackled/queried/addressed directly and specifically - not via some indirect adjustment to the rules to combat the presumed "suspicion" of unproven impropriety.