Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:45 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:25 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:05 pm
Ding Liren ends the Hangzhou tournament with 10.5/12 and a live rating of 2810.8. He finished six points clear of the remaining three players, none of whom I had ever heard of or who won a game. I think that Ding deserves to be in the Candidates no doubt about that but this tournament set up by the Chinese, with Chinese only participants to ensure a qualification for the World Championship cycle have to be wrong in principle.
I'd heard of Jinshi Bai, who drew with Esipenko, Predke and Fedoseev in Moscow at the Russia - China match in 2019

Ding has been denied the opportunity to play in the qualifiers (whether this is his fault in any way, I'm not sure); if he's now able to get to Madrid, then good luck to him in playing all the games necessary
Most people seem to think it isn't, if so then what he is doing now is fair enough IMO.
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Mick Norris
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Re: Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:38 am

Ding - Wei Yi match starts today

Game 1 was drawn and game 2 looks level
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Mick Norris
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Re: Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:02 pm

Ding wins the final game after 5 draws to win the match

His live rating is 2809.8, so he's only got to play a few more games to reach the 30 target; he must be a bit tired by now
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NickFaulks
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Re: Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:02 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:02 pm
he must be a bit tired by now
His games so far have not looked very stressful.
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Paul Cooksey
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Re: Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:28 pm

I guess we are in a situation we can all interpret it how we like. Looking at the games, I do think that was a competitive match.

But I've always been a Ding fan and think he has been the victim of circumstances beyond his control. A spot in the candidates opening up seems to me some good luck he more than deserves. So maybe I'm too generous.

If I missed 1950s Soviet Era skulduggery enough, or distrusted China, or both, I could manufacture a theory that there are underhand attempts to abuse a rating slot. Rating slots tend to enable that sort of theory, which is I suppose why they have been mostly removed. Albeit not having been replaced with anything better in my opinion.

From an Occam's razor point of view, if I was the head of the Chinese Chess Federation and I wanted Ding to get the surprise candidates rating spot, I don't think I'd feel the need to do anything more than get him some opponents.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:09 pm

Carlsen's view on Karjakin here:

https://en.chessbase.com/post/carlsen-k ... e-a-martyr

(Tangentially relevant, as banning Karjakin is I believe what led to Ding's route back in.)

Tim Harding
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Re: Qualifying for 2 022 Candidates

Post by Tim Harding » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:52 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:05 pm
Ding Liren ends the Hangzhou tournament with 10.5/12 and a live rating of 2810.8. He finished six points clear of the remaining three players, none of whom I had ever heard of or who won a game. I think that Ding deserves to be in the Candidates no doubt about that but this tournament set up by the Chinese, with Chinese only participants to ensure a qualification for the World Championship cycle have to be wrong in principle.
If Ding was doing this under normal circumstances and to overtake somebody else on rating I might agree, but that's not the case here.
He is clearly entitled on rating; any points he will probably gain through scrambling to meet the 30-game requirement are incidental.
He has been denied the opportunity to play the last World Cup. Grand Swiss and Fide GP (as well as probably some other events such as the 2021 SInquefield Cup) through visa/Covid issues beyond his control.

As for his opponents, Wei Yi is clearly a strong GM and probably the strongest match opponent available at short notice since Yu Yanggyi was playing the Berlin Grand Prix.
Of the opponents in Hangzhou, an event which clearly had to be hurriedly arranged, there was one I didn't know about.
But I certainly knew of Bu Xiangzhi who eliminated Magnus Carlsen 1.5-0.5 in the 2017 Tbilisi World Cup and also beat Magnus in the 2017 World Rapid.
According to my database Magnus has only won games against Bu at blitz.

I agree with Paul. I think most fair-minded people will think the Candidates will be much more interesting and pleasurable to watch with Ding in the field rather than Karjakin.
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Graham Borrowdale
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Re: Qualifying for 2 022 Candidates

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:50 pm

Tim Harding wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:52 pm

… I think most fair-minded people will think the Candidates will be much more interesting and pleasurable to watch with Ding in the field rather than Karjakin.
I agree with that - my only question is who has lost out on a place as a result of Ding playing all of these rated games in order to become eligible? In other words who would have taken Karjakin’s place before Ding became eligible?

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Re: Qualifying for 2 022 Candidates

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:10 pm

Graham Borrowdale wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:50 pm
I agree with that - my only question is who has lost out on a place as a result of Ding playing all of these rated games in order to become eligible? In other words who would have taken Karjakin’s place before Ding became eligible?
Aronian, unless he loses rating points before the end of the month, and/or one of the players just below him gains points, and overtakes him.

Graham Borrowdale
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Re: Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:12 pm

Thanks Ian

Mick Norris
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Re: Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:12 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:02 pm
Ding wins the final game after 5 draws to win the match

His live rating is 2809.8, so he's only got to play a few more games to reach the 30 target; he must be a bit tired by now
Ding has now played another 5 games, and is 2810.5 at the moment

Meanwhile, the question of who the winning Candidate might play remains, based on the latest from Magnus

Would the top 2 in the Candidates then play a WC match?
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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:47 pm

Still absolutely don't believe he will just give up his title.
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NickFaulks
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Re: Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:01 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:47 pm
Still absolutely don't believe he will just give up his title.
I thought it was going to depend upon who the challenger was. What happened to that?
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Mick Norris
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Re: Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:59 pm

Ding has now completed 26 games in the last month, which I think gets him to the 30 he needs

He's not leading the tournament though, Ma Qun is half a point ahead with 2 rounds to go

Ding at 2804.5 live rating; Aronian down to 2776.4 after the first round of the American Cup, so the gaps too large to close now (as has always appeared to be the case)
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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Qualifying for 2022 Candidates

Post by Gerard Killoran » Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:53 pm

Has anyone really enjoyed the last few matches for the World Championship? Days are wasted when both players follow their opening preparation into dull drawn positions, shake hands and go home early. This discourages interest from spectators who log in, only to see a pair of empty chairs and two kings in the centre of the board.

The Candidates Tournament should replace match-play to decide the World Champion, there is a precedent as the first FIDE World Champion was decided this way in 1948. In a tournament, there is usually at least one interesting - or even exciting - game to watch and for commentators to analyse.

Who wants another 14 risk-averse games followed by a quick-play shoot out? Not me.