France's Youngest GM Ever

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Mick Norris
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France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by Mick Norris » Sat May 22, 2021 9:59 am

Bacrot finally loses the record

Pete Doggers
The news has been dominated lately by prodigies. After our reports on Tani Adewumi becoming a national master at 10 and 12-year-old IM Abhimanyu Mishra scoring his second GM norm, today it's the real deal. France has a new grandmaster, his name is Marc'Andria Maurizzi, and he is the youngest GM ever in that country.
Top 15 Youngest Chess Grandmasters

No. Fed Player Country Age
1 Sergey Karjakin Ukraine 12 years, 7 months, 0 days
2 Gukesh Dommaraju India 12 years, 7 months, 17 days
3 Javokhir Sindarov Uzbekistan 12 years, 10 months, 5 days
4 Praggnanandhaa Rameshbabu India 12 years, 10 months, 13 days
5 Nodirbek Abdusattorov Uzbekistan 13 years, 1 month, 11 days
6 Parimarjan Negi India 13 years, 4 months, 22 days
7 Magnus Carlsen Norway 13 years, 4 months, 27 days
8 Wei Yi China 13 years, 8 months, 23 days
9 Raunak Sadhwani India 13 years, 9 months, 28 days
10 Bu Xiangzhi China 13 years, 10 months, 13 days
11 Samuel Sevian United States 13 years, 10 months, 27 days
12 Richard Rapport Hungary 13 years, 11 months, 6 days
13 Marc'Andria Maurizzi France 14 years, 0 months, 5 days
14 Teimour Radjabov Azerbaijan 14 years, 0 months, 14 days
15 Ruslan Ponomariov Ukraine 14 years, 0 months, 17 days
Any postings on here represent my personal views

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat May 22, 2021 2:41 pm

Tried to find a longer 'youngest GMs' list, but could only find about the top 40. How far down do you have to go to find the youngest England GM by age the title was acquired? (That would still be David Howell, aged 16 years, 1 month and 22 days.) And is there a list anywhere of youngest by country?

There are 39 GMs who became GMs before their 15th birthday. The youngest is Maurizzi who was born in 2007. The oldest was born in 1979, so bonus points to anyone who knows that without looking it up.

The list of sub-15-year-old GMs is a different list to the progression of the 'youngest-ever GM' record, which really only makes sense if you start from the official adoption by FIDE of the IGM title. So who can start that off with the youngest in the initial batch of IGM titles back in the 1950s? (Ditto for the IM title?) And then work forward until we get to Karjakin on 12 August 2002 whose record has been held for nearly 19 years now. (Though I am sure someone has done this list already.)

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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by NickFaulks » Sat May 22, 2021 2:47 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 2:41 pm
The youngest is Maurizzi who was born in 2007.
As always, there is the proviso that he's not a GM yet.
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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat May 22, 2021 3:45 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 2:47 pm
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 2:41 pm
The youngest is Maurizzi who was born in 2007.
As always, there is the proviso that he's not a GM yet.
Yes, good point. I had assumed from the reports that the title had been awarded. Is this a case of he has the norms and the rating, but the title hasn't been ratified at FIDE level yet?

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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat May 22, 2021 3:46 pm

SPOILER ALERT
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(Sorry, answering one of my questions above.....)
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(Nearly there)
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So the initial batch of IGM titles awarded by FIDE in 1950 were 27 players, World Champion Botvinnik and the 14 players in the inaugural Candidates Tournament of 1950. Obviously the other 12 grandmaster titles awarded to those 'past their peak' in 1950 but who had been world-class at their time will be older. So the answer is the youngest players in the 1950 Candidates, which turns out to have been David Bronstein. So he holds the initial record for world's youngest GM! I can't find the exact date of the resolution of the FIDE General Assembly and the Qualification Committee that awarded the first 27 titles, so Bronstein would have been around 25-26 years of age.

The question could be extended to ask who were successively the oldest and youngest to attain the GM titles by later FIDE Commission awards, and then by the norm system (when that was brought in). I am sure I have heard rare cases of relatively old players gaining the GM title in later life. (I'll address the oldest GMs in a separate post.)

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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by NickFaulks » Sat May 22, 2021 4:32 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 3:45 pm
Yes, good point. I had assumed from the reports that the title had been awarded. Is this a case of he has the norms and the rating, but the title hasn't been ratified at FIDE level yet?
No title application has yet been submitted. I look forward to seeing it.
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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat May 22, 2021 5:02 pm

Larry Kaufman was 60 when he got the GM title; I don't know if there's an older one outside the 1950 batch.

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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by MJMcCready » Sat May 22, 2021 5:45 pm

On the topic of GM titles and nationalities, do we in England have any upcoming proteges, likely to become a GM in their teens? If so who are they and what is their present rating?

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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sat May 22, 2021 8:14 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 5:02 pm
Larry Kaufman was 60 when he got the GM title; I don't know if there's an older one outside the 1950 batch.
Wasn't that through winning the World Senior title, which grants the title automatically to those who don't already have it?

If those count, then I'm pretty sure the late Janis Klovans was a bit older (and maybe a few others too)

Which would mean we are still looking for the most senior player to get it from actual *norms*.
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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by NickFaulks » Sat May 22, 2021 8:34 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 8:14 pm
Wasn't that through winning the World Senior title, which grants the title automatically to those who don't already have it?
When this was first announced I assumed it was immaterial, since the winners would inevitably be GMs already. The first three winners were Smyslov, Geller and Taimanov. However, it turned out that I was wrong.
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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat May 22, 2021 11:52 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 5:45 pm
On the topic of GM titles and nationalities, do we in England have any upcoming proteges, likely to become a GM in their teens? If so who are they and what is their present rating?
Our highest-rated player born in 2002 or later is Jonah Willow, 2386.

Others who are "highest-rated ENG player born in their year or later":

Alex Golding (2003) 2321
Ranesh Ratnesan (2005) 2258
Shreyas Royal (2009) 2121

Not brilliant chances of being GMs in their teens, but possibly later in life.

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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun May 23, 2021 2:44 am

There seems to be more interest here in the oldest GMs, but I am wondering who after David Bronstein was the next person to be the youngest GM. It would be necessary to trace the history of FIDE awarding the GM title from 1950 onwards. Relying heavily on Wikipedia here (sorry!), you get the following:

1951 - Efim Bogoljubov (1889-1952)

This sentence is sourced to The Encyclopaedia of Chess (1970) by Anne Sunnucks:
Seventy-four GM titles were awarded in 1951 through 1968. During that period, ten GM titles were awarded in 1965, but only one in 1966 and in 1968.
I wonder what the best way would be to get a list of those 74 awards of GM titles?

And I wonder who the youngest GMs at the time of awarding the title were in that period?

Actually, the answer is here (assuming that listing is correct), along with the answer to my question about the future GM born in 1979 (that was Lékó):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_pro ... andmasters

So it goes Bronstein (1950, 26), Petrosian (1952, 23), Spassky (1955, 18), Fischer (1958, 15), Polgár (1991, 15), Lékó (1994, 14), Bacrot (1997, 14), Ponomariov (1997, 14), Xiangzhi (1999, 13), Karjakin (2002 ,12).

So Fischer held the record for somewhere between 32 and 34 years (not sure of exact dates). That is impressive. He also lopped a massive three years off the record, which has only ever decreased by relatively small amounts since then. I doubt Karjakin will hold the record for another 15 years, but you never know. But maybe the next record holder will hold the record for longer than Fischer did.

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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun May 23, 2021 6:39 am

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 8:14 pm
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 5:02 pm
Larry Kaufman was 60 when he got the GM title; I don't know if there's an older one outside the 1950 batch.
Wasn't that through winning the World Senior title, which grants the title automatically to those who don't already have it?

If those count, then I'm pretty sure the late Janis Klovans was a bit older (and maybe a few others too)

Which would mean we are still looking for the most senior player to get it from actual *norms*.
[Wrong thread, but what can you do?!]

After spending too long browsing through and sorting the Wikipedia list of GMs (should really stick the data in a spreadsheet and do this properly), I came across Leif Øgaard, who was 55 when awarded the title in 2007 with a 25-year-gap between his first 2 GM norms and his final one - luckily he had been over 2500 in the 1980s at the time he attained his first norms (he was clearly already GM standard at that time).

Mark Tseitlin was awarded the GM title aged around 54. Not sure what criteria applied there.

Other older GMs at time of award of title (all in their late 40s I think) are: Yair Kraidman, Juraj Nikolac, Jacob Murey, Miodrag Todorcevic, Davorin Komljenovic, Thorsten Michael Haub, Thies Heinemann.

As you say, Jānis Klovāns was 62 (I think) when winning the World Seniors, so not that much older than Kaufman. Quite a few titles obtained that way now. Enough for a proper listing.

EDIT: Also covered in Edward Winter's Chess Notes:

https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/winter114.html

See: "8477. Grandmasters (C.N.s 8467 & 8472)"

EDIT AGAIN: Interesting question: who is the oldest player to have achieved the GM-title by attaining norms if you rank by the age at which the FIRST norm was achieved? (i.e. discount those who get some norms while young and get the final one much later.) Or to put it another way, those who reach GM standard LATER in life? (This is much harder to find out, as I don't think there is any listing out there of the norms each norm-attained GM title was obtained by, unless FIDE have that data all updated and correct?)

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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by Wadih Khoury » Sun May 23, 2021 7:53 am

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 11:52 pm

Shreyas Royal (2009) 2121

Not brilliant chances of being GMs in their teens, but possibly later in life.
He should still be on track, given that his grade is out of date. If he is 2200 or 2300, that's 2-300 points in 6 years.

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Re: France's Youngest GM Ever

Post by Leonard Barden » Sun May 23, 2021 9:06 am

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 7:53 am
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 11:52 pm

Shreyas Royal (2009) 2121

Not brilliant chances of being GMs in their teens, but possibly later in life.
He should still be on track, given that his grade is out of date. If he is 2200 or 2300, that's 2-300 points in 6 years.
Wadih is quite right. A chess coach who knows Shreyas well thinks 2300, and that's my impression too. Shreyas is 12 years 4 months now, and I would expect him to break David Howell's age 16 GM record by around a year.

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