Interview with FIDE President

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NickFaulks
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Interview with FIDE President

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:33 pm

https://www.chesstech.org/2020/fides-next-steps/

This contains some quite extraordinary comments. There is mention of subtitles for the full interview, but I cannot see them.

Edit : found them now.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:43 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:33 pm
This contains some quite extraordinary comments.
One of them is that players should only be allowed to play in one national league at a time.

Football does this, but not cricket. What about other team sports?

Wadih Khoury
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by Wadih Khoury » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:56 pm

Wow indeed.
That is not one or two small changes but more like half a dozen proposed major changes.

Wadih Khoury
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by Wadih Khoury » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:58 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:43 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:33 pm
This contains some quite extraordinary comments.
One of them is that players should only be allowed to play in one national league at a time.

Football does this, but not cricket. What about other team sports?
Can't speak for other sports, but in chess it seems that in France you can play only in one club for the season (at least at junior level).
Does create soccer transfer window level dramas with clubs trying to poach other clubs' players.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:30 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:58 pm

Can't speak for other sports, but in chess it seems that in France you can play only in one club for the season (at least at junior level).
Outside the UK I think that's a common rule for domestic competitions. It doesn't preclude players playing in the French League, the 4NCL, the German league etc. The only conflict is where the match dates overlap or where it's a club competition such as the European Club Cup for all territories.

Chris Rice
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:44 pm

For the most part very sensible suggestions from Dvorkovich. His ideas on the Candidates, World Championship, World Cups, no schools competitions for those that are really too young to be playing in them and Belarus losing the Olympiad are all pretty solid. The team sports not being rated I particularly approve of. If this goes through then for example it would mean that a player who tries to save their team by playing on when they probably would take a draw if it was an individual tournament would not be penalised. Additionally, the common practice where players can get titles from Olympiads when we know there are clearly fixed results in a lot matches agreed by the captains beforehand would also be stopped.

Not sure I really fully understand the rationale though on playing for more than one team. There isn't the money in chess to compare it to football and chess doesn't have Champions League, Europa Leagues issues so I don't see the need for example to prevent Gawain and Mickey earning money from playing in half a dozen leagues.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:31 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:44 pm
The team sports not being rated I particularly approve of.
If FIDE were to ban leagues like the 4NCL from being Internationally rated, wouldn't that cost a lot in terms of popularity amongst amateur players?

Richard Bates
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by Richard Bates » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:57 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:31 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:44 pm
The team sports not being rated I particularly approve of.
If FIDE were to ban leagues like the 4NCL from being Internationally rated, wouldn't that cost a lot in terms of popularity amongst amateur players?
Yep, mystified why anyone would be in favour of this. What would be the incentive to play once you've seen off any chance of relegation or promotion. You might as well argue that Swiss events shouldn't be rated as some results will be skewed by people taking suboptimal decisions in the last few rounds to try to win prize money.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by Paul Cooksey » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:03 pm

To be honest, feels like rules intended for professional chess, maybe those rated 2600 and up

NickFaulks
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:11 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:03 pm
To be honest, feels like rules intended for professional chess, maybe those rated 2600 and up
I don't get the impression Dubov considers that any other chess of value exists.
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NickFaulks
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:37 pm

I have now got to the end. I recommend anyone with a serious interest to do the same, rather than relying on Loffler's summary which, while not bad, doesn't give the full flavour.
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Chris Rice
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:28 am

Richard Bates wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:57 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:31 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:44 pm
The team sports not being rated I particularly approve of.
If FIDE were to ban leagues like the 4NCL from being Internationally rated, wouldn't that cost a lot in terms of popularity amongst amateur players?
Yep, mystified why anyone would be in favour of this. What would be the incentive to play once you've seen off any chance of relegation or promotion. You might as well argue that Swiss events shouldn't be rated as some results will be skewed by people taking suboptimal decisions in the last few rounds to try to win prize money.
If people play 4ncl solely for an international rating then they will be taking a decision on their own games without recourse to how the team is doing. Many players, at all levels, of course do that and are quite happy to take a short draw to protect their rating so if that is the case its not really a team game then is it? I could say I'm equally mystified why you wouldn't be in favour of what Dvorkovich is proposing. In what other team sports do you protect your individual rating if the team is losing?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:09 am

Team sports generally don't have individual ratings in the way chess does. Heck, most individual sports don't have individual ratings in the way chess does - that is to say, the underlying aims and methodology are radically different in such a way as to render them incomparable.

Richard Bates
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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:29 am

“Mystified” is perhaps laying it on a bit strong. I get the principle.

However, I’m not saying that most people play 4ncl (or any team chess) solely for an individual rating. But they play for a range of reasons, one being that it is an opportunity to play competitive chess, hopefully against players of similar standard. There are individual aspects in relation to personal performance, as well as the social and team bonding effects from playing as a team. But take away rating (and also by corollary potentially the opportunity to play for master norms at higher levels etc) the vast majority of games become devoid of meaning or purpose once one or other side lacks any individual incentive to perform. This might be once a team’s position in the league becomes determined (ie. Can’t be relegated/promoted) or once match results are determined (eg. one team reaches 4.5 in an 8 board match).

If you want an example where individual performance has a potential to conflict with team performance I would cite cricket - the difference there being that the measures of individual performance (averages etc) cannot be wished away - they just exist whether people like it or not and are not artificially created to the same level a la ratings in chess.

But similar to cricket, balancing focus on individual performance at the (potential) expense of the team is just all part of the challenges of team competition. If the team as a whole cares sufficiently, then players demonstrating excessive selfishness (to the detriment of the team) will not be long of that team. On the other hand the pride in an individual’s performance, even when a team is failing, can actually serve as an inspiration and motivator to the team as a whole. Who in league chess hasn’t experienced the shared enjoyment of a team member having a great draw or win against a much stronger player, even when a team has been soundly beaten, or just a win with a long effort, hours after a team result has been determined? But take away meaning from such results, by taking away the effect of rating and what is to be celebrated? Especially in the latter scenario where a more major feeling is likely to be that the game has just delayed everone’s dinner! (well though that’s always a response on some level... :) )
Last edited by Richard Bates on Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Interview with FIDE President

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:40 am

I should add, perhaps, that of course the above arguments aren’t absolute. There will of course be those who care little for rating anyway -so can be dismissed as a motivator, and who might anyway lose interest once team result is determined. Just as there are those who will try their best and fight to the end regardless. But most people, I would suggest (especially in 4ncl) lie somewhere in the middle.

One thing that is, as an aside, interesting in the context of normal league chess, when we ever get back to it, is how it might be changed by the effect of monthly grading. Which will seem to add an “importance” and clearly defined rating impact to individual games in the way that the former system never did (in a transparent and near immediate way).

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