Carlsen resigns on move 2

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Brian Egdell
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Brian Egdell » Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:32 pm

Keith Arkell wrote:
Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:03 pm
I would be very happy to partake in such an experiment, but there is a caveat: we are better at detecting when cheating has taken place by our own opponent rather than in another game about which we only have access to the moves, but no other information.

You see there is the rhythm and tempo of the moves, the body language (in the case of otb cheating), but most of all the feeling of power of the opponents moves. I said elsewhere that it is only engines which have the ability to play none - human type moves after which you discover, a few moves later, how well the hidden tactics always seem to work for the opponent.

And remember that these aren't just empty words. I have only once in my life ever withdrawn from an event in protest because I was sure I had been cheated. And I have played about 7000 'official' games. Half an hour after I withdrew, Chessdotcom closed my opponent's account for cheating. Coincidence? I think not!
These points are all well taken. I think it is indeed highly plausible that top players can sense cheating in their own games from clues that are unavailable to others, including cheating detection experts, who are not directly involved in the games in question.

Two caveats I would however add to that are:

(1) We see the same phenomenon at all levels of the game. Weak club-strength players, for example, sometimes report that their stronger opponents must surely be cheating because their play seems inhumanly strong, whereas stronger players can see that the players complaining about cheating are simply being outplayed with superior technique which they don't understand. I used to see this frequently in the Cheating Forum of chess.com concerning online games. Now, top players could certainly be said to have good cause to label such eerily superior play as cheating because they play at the top levels possible for humans, but there could be different "dimensions" to good quality play of which individual top players only master some.

(2) The players of individual games are subject to strong emotions during the games (losing is painful!), and these emotions may interfere in the judgment.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:14 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:15 pm
Not sure what Mamedov would think of this move: https://twitter.com/agadmator/status/15 ... 7355171840
Curiously
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John Upham
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by John Upham » Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:58 am

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/pro-co ... 34694.html

Another sport rocked to its core by cheating...
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:04 pm

John Upham wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:58 am
Another sport rocked to its core by cheating...
"Since a pro cornhole player can earn up to $250,000 a year..."
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by John Upham » Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:20 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:04 pm
John Upham wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:58 am
Another sport rocked to its core by cheating...
"Since a pro cornhole player can earn up to $250,000 a year..."
Also known as "Sack Toss"

Warning: Be careful when looking up "cornhole" on the Interweb thingy....! :lol:
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Mike Gunn
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Mike Gunn » Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:51 pm

The latest New in Chess (received this week) has detailed coverage of all the relevant tournaments but avoids making any criticism of Carlsen's actions. (I am not exactly surprised given the recent transfer in ownership of the mag.)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:55 am

Ray Keene's thoughts

https://www.thearticle.com/cheating-at- ... ory-so-far

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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Gerard Killoran » Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:35 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:55 am
Ray Keene's thoughts

https://www.thearticle.com/cheating-at- ... ory-so-far

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You don't need to register.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:41 pm

it is always galling to be accused of cheating, when one has, in fact, achieved success by legitimate methods
Ho ho.

Other than that belly laugh, very much not worth the skim.
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Mick Norris
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:27 pm

Anand
I saw Carlsen-Niemann. And I thought, 'wow, great game by this kid!' When you play Carlsen, you desperately want to get it over with. Many people have this problem, they want to get it over with. They can't handle the tension of playing him for a couple of hours. So even if you have a better position, they use that as a springboard to liquidate into a drawn ending and take the draw.
Then I read this very cryptic tweet of his. I had no clue what he was referring to. Then Hikaru, I think, started on his stream mentioning how 'People have said Niemann is cheating.' So this is how things started. Then it hit me, 'Oh, they are actually accusing him of cheating. Do they have any proof?' One thing is that the moves didn't say anything to me. 'Am I naive, or are my colleagues paranoid?' Maybe I am too trusting, or maybe I have gotten into the habit of 'what I cannot prove, it's better to keep your mouth shut', you know, that sort of approach.
With computer assistance, there will be no smoking gun. You are not going to get someone at the scene of the crime. You have to take, to some degree, your gut feeling. There are quite a few strong chess players who have no particular reason to swim in these waters, but choose to suspect him. I keep an open mind at this point, but there are commissions now investigating the matter, trying to look at it slowly.
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Nick Ivell
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Nick Ivell » Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:05 pm

Seems very fair-minded from Vishy, which is what I would expect of him.

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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Simon Brown » Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:53 pm

Good news for Neimann's lawyers too.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:52 pm

I managed a one-move win on chess.com the other day, and it was an instant "resigns", not a failure to notice the clock had started.

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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:00 pm


Brian Egdell
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Brian Egdell » Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:09 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:00 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkd1Q0Ntt9s

from "LegalEagle"
Interesting legal analysis, but is the guest speaker ("one of Youtube's resident chess experts") whom this legal expert chooses to feature in the video quite such an authoritative source? When I listened to "Gotham Chess", who I understand from other sources is an American International Master, stating that Borislav Ivanov "was found with a device in his shoe", I started wondering if a new lawsuit might be launched as a result of that statement. Granted, the circumstantial evidence against Ivanov was overwhelming, but I didn't think anything quite that concrete was ever found in his case.

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