European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

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Mick Norris
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:47 am

Mike Truran wrote:I suppose my point was that if teams (or individuals) fail to perform to expectation on a regular and consistent basis on the national stage in other sports there are very often adverse financial consequences for them in terms of reduced or withdrawn funding.
Yes, that's the way it works in many Olympic sports (obviously not in football, where repeated failure particularly as a manager seems to be rewarded astonishingly well) - the sports get paid either on medal potential/achievement, or on successfully developing at grassroots level - the individuals get paid by the sports who get funding, on the basis of achievement or potential

There's a sensible debate to be had, but Council doesn't appear the place (maybe due to time constraints at meetings) about the International budget and where it is spent

As Justin says, if you want to be represented by the best team, then our professional players need paying, which probably means the International Director raising sponsorship

If you want the ECF members to pay, they might well prefer either to fund a team with a chance of success, which would be the over 50 team, or to have players like Jonathan Hawkins in the team - I have found disatisfaction with the ECF has often been expressed in terms of membership fees subsiding professionals, if this is unjustified there needs to be a better PR approach with the membership
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Richard Bates
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by Richard Bates » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:09 am

Mike Truran wrote:I suppose my point was that if teams (or individuals) fail to perform to expectation on a regular and consistent basis on the national stage in other sports there are very often adverse financial consequences for them in terms of reduced or withdrawn funding.
I don't really think the analogy holds. Firstly I think you are referring to a situation where the administrators of a national cross-sport pot take decisions of how best to distribute and prioritise funding across competing sports to maximise chances of success (even this is contentious, because many would argue that it unjustly prioritises and enriches very minority sports at the expense of those where there is perhaps genuine national interest). Secondly this funding is generally support funding - it is given to allow individuals to devote themselves full-time to the pursuit of sporting success. If an individual out of their own resources manages to reach a level where they are earn their right to represent at major international events then the funding for that would still be there (albeit there is probably a grey area between covering of expenses and provision of professional fees/payment on top, which is I guess where Paul is coming from).

Effectively England's top chess players have to provide for themselves for 50 weeks of the year, with no support from national resources. It is not a coincidence that our best team includes at least one amateur. Whether sending a team to (particularly) the European Team championships is something that should be done with minimal external sponsorship is a valid question. But personally I think the choice should be between sending the strongest available team, or not sending one at all. Perhaps if ECF funds are to be committed in absence of sponsorship there should be more attempt to ringfence funds in accordance with the wishes of individual members. Be it through an optional surcharge when applying for membership, a specific proportion of "Gold" Fees, or whatever. And the ringfenced funds should specifically go into a reserve not forming part of the annual budget (so they don't get spent elsewhere if sponsorship is available from time to time). If the reserves aren't sufficient to cover the cost of the strongest team for any one event then we don't send a team (albeit, given the cheaper cost, I think we should always send a team to the Olympiad).

Mike Truran
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by Mike Truran » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:05 pm

But personally I think the choice should be between sending the strongest available team, or not sending one at all.
I think I agree with that. I don't think the Scottish team's performance is doing Scottish chess many favours on the PR front (let alone the fact that a total of four game points in total so far must be fairly demoralising for the players themselves).

Martin Benjamin
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by Martin Benjamin » Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:47 pm

I ponder far too much in the early stages of a game, but according to the live coverage, Alexander Grischuk just spent 25 minutes or so on 6...Be7 when there are few alternatives, none requiring deep analysis, and it's not a crucial point in the game. It's the sort of habit one could get away with in the days of 40 moves in 150 minutes, but at today's faster time controls, it seems a strange indulgence for a professional player.

John Moore
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by John Moore » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:40 pm

Nigel's opponent seems to have got a bit over excited.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:15 pm

John Moore wrote:Nigel's opponent seems to have got a bit over excited.
I thought that but things don't look so clear now.

Barry Sandercock
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by Barry Sandercock » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:20 pm

White has equalised (move 20) and Nigel will have to be careful now.

Martin Benjamin
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by Martin Benjamin » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:30 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
John Moore wrote:Nigel's opponent seems to have got a bit over excited.
I thought that but things don't look so clear now.
It was a Tal-like sacrifice. Probably not sound against strong computer software, but not as speculative as it seems at first glance, setting far from easy problems for the defender to overcome. Baris Esen deserves great praise for having the courage to give it a go.

benedgell
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by benedgell » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:23 pm

Short winning now. Not so sure about any of the other games.

benedgell
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by benedgell » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:30 pm

Adams losing :(

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:37 pm

Nigel has won and Jovanka has won yet again.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:04 pm

Short's game was fun, and an example of how human chess differs from engine chess.

After Adams' loss, no man is undefeated now, but perhaps the team can make the top ten if it wins again tomorrow.

The women may or may not win, but at least their opponents' generous draw offer on board three means that we should not lose.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:21 pm

David Howell has won to put us 2-1 up and Gawain has the option of forcing perpetual check which would win us the match.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:50 pm

Gawain halved out to win the match whilst the women are all square with Kanwal still playing.

NickFaulks
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Re: European Team Championship 13-22 November 2015

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:15 pm

I really like Kanwal's games. She doesn't always find the best moves but just heads for unclear games and goes for it, often with good results.
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