Piece values

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 5821
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:23 am

"(including, of course, why the chess king is to be valued at 2 notional pawns!)"

I always thought it was mobility.

User avatar
Joey Stewart
Posts: 1860
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:35 pm
Location: All Of Them

Re: Piece values

Post by Joey Stewart » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:39 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:18 pm
We all know that the interrogation will produce the following answer -

8 (pawns) + 6 (2 knights) + 7 (2 bishops) + 10 (2 rooks) + 9 (queen) + 2 (king) = 42!
We need an "upvote" feature for posts like this. Good one
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

John McKenna

Re: Piece values

Post by John McKenna » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:49 pm

Thanks, Joey.

However, others would then want a 'thumbs down' button.

Best if we leave thumbs twiddling...
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:23 am
"(including, of course, why the chess king is to be valued at 2 notional pawns!)"

I always thought it was mobility.

And I always thought it was a lack of nobility.

User avatar
Michael Farthing
Posts: 2069
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:28 pm
Location: Morecambe, Europe

Re: Piece values

Post by Michael Farthing » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:28 am

I always thought there was something fundamentally wrong with the Game.

John McKenna

Re: Piece values

Post by John McKenna » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:01 pm

There's nothing about a flawed masterpiece that can't be attributed to its creator(s).

Nick Burrows
Posts: 1705
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by Nick Burrows » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:20 am

In "Applying logic in Chess" by IM Erik Kislik, he has a chapter on piece values. He says that after years of testing by Stockfish and Komodo et al, the settled upon values used by the engines is:

Pawn = 1
Knight = 3.45
Bishop = 3.55
Rook = 5.25
Queen = 10

Bishop Pair = +0.5
Safe King in Endgame = 4

Early in game Rooks have less value and increase as game progresses. A single rook is worth more than 5.25.

Steven DuCharme
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:51 pm
Location: West Bend,WI USA

Re: Piece values

Post by Steven DuCharme » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:28 pm

My formula is number of reachable squares equals piece value points. A checking piece is infinity/2 and a mating piece is infinity/1
I float like a pawn island and sting like an ignored knight :mrgreen:

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3178
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by MJMcCready » Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:14 am

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:08 pm
Hi.
What's the basis for assigning numerical values 1-3-5-9 to pieces?
Once you go ELO2000 and up you'll see the numerical values are relative to the stage of the game as rooks are usually the worst pieces on the board in the opening, and not that much use in the middle game usually, but in the endgame then their true value can be seen. On move one the only things that have any value at all are pawns and knights because only they can move.
Last edited by MJMcCready on Fri May 21, 2021 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kevin O'Rourke
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:01 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by Kevin O'Rourke » Wed May 19, 2021 10:30 am

Everyone knows that the Knight is better than the Bishop.

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3178
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by MJMcCready » Wed May 19, 2021 10:45 am

Not in endgames where there are pawns on both sides of the board, then a knight is usually worse.

User avatar
John Upham
Posts: 7179
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.

Re: Piece values

Post by John Upham » Wed May 19, 2021 11:56 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:20 am
In "Applying logic in Chess" by IM Erik Kislik, he has a chapter on piece values. He says that after years of testing by Stockfish and Komodo et al, the settled upon values used by the engines is:

Pawn = 1
Knight = 3.45
Bishop = 3.55
Rook = 5.25
Queen = 10

Bishop Pair = +0.5
Safe King in Endgame = 4

Early in game Rooks have less value and increase as game progresses. A single rook is worth more than 5.25.
Does EK discuss the changing value of a pawn as it progresses from the 2nd to the 7th rank?
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3178
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by MJMcCready » Wed May 19, 2021 5:38 pm

I don't think we will ever see that happen which draws into question the whole numerical value system. Even if we factor in time controls its tricky. What about blitz games where succumbing to knight forks is harder to avoid.

Nick Burrows
Posts: 1705
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by Nick Burrows » Thu May 20, 2021 8:59 pm

John Upham wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 11:56 am
Does EK discuss the changing value of a pawn as it progresses from the 2nd to the 7th rank?
He has a paragraph saying in certain positions a pawn on the seventh rank is worth at least 3 pawns, but trying to work out when its worth 2 pawns etc is not worthwhile.
A fast/dangerous/well supported passed pawn is likely more valuable than an extra pawn for the other side

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3178
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by MJMcCready » Fri May 21, 2021 7:42 pm

It's all relative, we could be here all day. Trying to evaluate the numerical value of a good knight over a bad bishop in an endgame is also nigh on impossible.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Wed May 26, 2021 4:49 pm

Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 10:30 am
Everyone knows that the Knight is better than the Bishop.
Knights are better than bishops if the position is closed/semiclosed, pawns are on one flank, or they have advanced outposts