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good lines against the London System
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:33 am
by AlanLlewellyn
The London system has become incredibly popular on the chess circuit of late. Anyone know how to play against it???
I play 1 d4 nf6 2 Bf4 c6 3 e3 g5!! myself of course 4 Bxg5?? is a loss of the bishop after 4...Qa5+ but players have tended to play different lines as White.
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:50 am
by John Upham
AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:33 am
Anyone know how to play against it???
If one is a 1...d5 type person then lines with ...Nf6, ...c5 and ...Qb6 deferring ...e6 until the c8 bishop is deployed appear to equalise easily.
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:29 pm
by Roger de Coverly
AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:33 am
The London system has become incredibly popular on the chess circuit of late. Anyone know how to play against it???
I play 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c6 3 e3 g5!! myself of course 4 Bxg5?? is a loss of the bishop after 4...Qa5+ but players have tended to play different lines as White.
It's an entertaining idea. Stockfish reckons an advantage for White after 4. Bg3, but the handful of games that can be unearthed show Black wins, perhaps from the shock value.
For what it's worth, Mark Hebden played 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c6 3 e3 against Anmet Ghasi in the Shropshire Congress of 2016, but Ghasi played 3. .. g6
I used to think that after 2. Bf4 it was nice of my opponent to tell me they were playing the London system as opposed to keeping me guessing after 2. Nf3. That was until I saw Mark and others using the move order 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 to set up 150 style attacking hacks against a Pirc structure.
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:43 pm
by Matt Mackenzie
John Upham wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:50 am
AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:33 am
Anyone know how to play against it???
If one is a 1...d5 type person then lines with ...Nf6, ...c5 and ...Qb6 deferring ...e6 until the c8 bishop is deployed appear to equalise easily.
I play the KB fianchetto against a London set-up, often leading to Closed Grunfeld type positions. Have generally done OK with it.
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:17 pm
by AlanLlewellyn
a funny line in my system goes 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c6 3 e3 g5!! 4 Bg3 Ne4?! 5 Be5! f6?? 6 Qh5# i have to be carefull but a recent rapidplay game of mine went 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c6 3 e3 g5 4 Bg3 Ne4?! 5 Bd3?! Nxg3 6 hxg3 h6 7 Nf3 d6(very cheeky) 8 Nxg5?? Qa5+ he spotted the idea the first time but not the second. I was black in that game and went on to get my queen pinned against my king and lose the game.
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:22 pm
by Jonathan Bryant
Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:29 pm
AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:33 am
The London system has become incredibly popular on the chess circuit of late. Anyone know how to play against it???
I play 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c6 3 e3 g5!! myself of course 4 Bxg5?? is a loss of the bishop after 4...Qa5+ but players have tended to play different lines as White.
Stockfish reckons an advantage for White after 4. Bg3 ....
Come on Roger. You didn’t need an engine to draw that conclusion.
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:19 am
by AlanLlewellyn
i have goood practcal results with it jonathan
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:52 am
by JustinHorton
John Upham wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:50 am
AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:33 am
Anyone know how to play against it???
If one is a 1...d5 type person then lines with ...Nf6, ...c5 and ...Qb6 deferring ...e6 until the c8 bishop is deployed appear to equalise easily.
It can be a bit more awkward if White delays Nf3
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:22 am
by John Upham
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:52 am
John Upham wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:50 am
AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:33 am
Anyone know how to play against it???
If one is a 1...d5 type person then lines with ...Nf6, ...c5 and ...Qb6 deferring ...e6 until the c8 bishop is deployed appear to equalise easily.
It can be a bit more awkward if White delays Nf3
Yes, White can improve things by playing Nd2 before Nf3 I agree. One of the ideas is to prevent an early ...Nh5 by Black chasing down the London bishop.
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:13 am
by AlanLlewellyn
this is the father Jonathan Blackburn not the top player son, i play an old system i developed against the london system, which is similar to the 2...c6 system
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:38 am
by John Upham
AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:13 am
this is the father Jonathan Blackburn not the top player son, i play an old system i developed against the london system, which is similar to the 2...c6 system
If White had been a little more flexible then 2..h6? could have been followed by 3.c4
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:14 am
by JustinHorton
I'm sure I remember a social media posting by Richard James where he mentioned seeing a game that started 1 d4 Nf6 2 Nf3 c5 3 Bf4* cxd4 and things got very bad for White very shortly afterwards
[* may have been 2 Bf4 and 3 Nf3]
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:23 am
by AlanLlewellyn
John Upham wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:38 am
If White had been a little more flexible then 2..h6? could have been followed by 3.c4
about the best thing that can be said of my whole play is it was speculative
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:39 pm
by IM Jack Rudd
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:14 am
I'm sure I remember a social media posting by Richard James where he mentioned seeing a game that started 1 d4 Nf6 2 Nf3 c5 3 Bf4* cxd4 and things got very bad for White very shortly afterwards
[* may have been 2 Bf4 and 3 Nf3]
I've certainly had that. It wasn't the hardest of winning positions to convert after white played 4.Nxd4??.
Re: good lines against the London System
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:51 pm
by Matt Mackenzie
Back when I played the Latvian, the similar line 3 Nc3 Nc6 4 Bc4? fe4 5 Ne4?? d5 caught a few - some of them quite high rated.
(White can and should bale out with 5 Bg8, but even then after 5....Rg8 6 Ne4 d5 they are still clearly worse)