good lines against the London System

[AlanLlewellyn]

The London system has become incredibly popular on the chess circuit of late. Anyone know how to play against it???
I play 1 d4 nf6 2 Bf4 c6 3 e3 g5!! myself of course 4 Bxg5?? is a loss of the bishop after 4...Qa5+ but players have tended to play different lines as White.

[John Upham]

Anyone know how to play against it???

If one is a 1...d5 type person then lines with ...Nf6, ...c5 and ...Qb6 deferring ...e6 until the c8 bishop is deployed appear to equalise easily.

[Roger de Coverly]

The London system has become incredibly popular on the chess circuit of late. Anyone know how to play against it???
I play 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c6 3 e3 g5!! myself of course 4 Bxg5?? is a loss of the bishop after 4...Qa5+ but players have tended to play different lines as White.

It's an entertaining idea. Stockfish reckons an advantage for White after 4. Bg3, but the handful of games that can be unearthed show Black wins, perhaps from the shock value.

For what it's worth, Mark Hebden played 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c6 3 e3 against Anmet Ghasi in the Shropshire Congress of 2016, but Ghasi played 3. .. g6

I used to think that after 2. Bf4 it was nice of my opponent to tell me they were playing the London system as opposed to keeping me guessing after 2. Nf3. That was until I saw Mark and others using the move order 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 to set up 150 style attacking hacks against a Pirc structure.

[Matt Mackenzie]

Anyone know how to play against it???

If one is a 1...d5 type person then lines with ...Nf6, ...c5 and ...Qb6 deferring ...e6 until the c8 bishop is deployed appear to equalise easily.

I play the KB fianchetto against a London set-up, often leading to Closed Grunfeld type positions. Have generally done OK with it.

[AlanLlewellyn]

a funny line in my system goes 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c6 3 e3 g5!! 4 Bg3 Ne4?! 5 Be5! f6?? 6 Qh5# i have to be carefull but a recent rapidplay game of mine went 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c6 3 e3 g5 4 Bg3 Ne4?! 5 Bd3?! Nxg3 6 hxg3 h6 7 Nf3 d6(very cheeky) 8 Nxg5?? Qa5+ he spotted the idea the first time but not the second. I was black in that game and went on to get my queen pinned against my king and lose the game.

[Jonathan Bryant]

The London system has become incredibly popular on the chess circuit of late. Anyone know how to play against it???
I play 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c6 3 e3 g5!! myself of course 4 Bxg5?? is a loss of the bishop after 4...Qa5+ but players have tended to play different lines as White.

Stockfish reckons an advantage for White after 4. Bg3 ....

Come on Roger. You didn’t need an engine to draw that conclusion.

[AlanLlewellyn]

i have goood practcal results with it jonathan

[JustinHorton]

Anyone know how to play against it???

If one is a 1...d5 type person then lines with ...Nf6, ...c5 and ...Qb6 deferring ...e6 until the c8 bishop is deployed appear to equalise easily.

It can be a bit more awkward if White delays Nf3

[John Upham]

Anyone know how to play against it???

If one is a 1...d5 type person then lines with ...Nf6, ...c5 and ...Qb6 deferring ...e6 until the c8 bishop is deployed appear to equalise easily.

It can be a bit more awkward if White delays Nf3

Yes, White can improve things by playing Nd2 before Nf3 I agree. One of the ideas is to prevent an early ...Nh5 by Black chasing down the London bishop.

[AlanLlewellyn]

this is the father Jonathan Blackburn not the top player son, i play an old system i developed against the london system, which is similar to the 2...c6 system[Event "Manchester Summer Congress(Major)"] [Site "?"] [Date "2017.08.18"] [Round "4"] [White "Blackburn, Jon"] [Black "Llewellyn, Alan Mansel"] [Result "0-1"] [ECO "A46"] [WhiteElo "1778"] [BlackElo "1400"] [Annotator "Llewellyn,Alan"] [PlyCount "88"] [EventDate "2017.??.??"] 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 h6 3. Bf4 g5 4. Bg3 Bg7 5. Nbd2 d5 6. e3 Ne4 7. Nxe4 dxe4 8. Ne5 Nc6 9. Bb5 Bd7 10. Nxc6 Bxc6 11. Bxc6+ bxc6 12. c4 c5 13. Qa4+ Qd7 14. Qxd7+ Kxd7 15. Rd1 cxd4 16. exd4 f5 $1 17. f3 $4 f4 18. Bf2 e3 19. Bg1 Ke6 $2 20. g3 $6 c6 21. gxf4 $2 gxf4 22. h4 Rad8 23. Bh2 Kf5 24. b3 Rxd4 25. Rxd4 Bxd4 26. Ke2 Rg8 27. Rg1 Rxg1 28. Bxg1 Bf6 29. b4 e5 30. a4 e4 (30... Bxh4 31. b5) 31. b5 cxb5 32. axb5 Bxh4 33. c5 Be7 34. c6 Bd6 35. Bh2 exf3+ 36. Kxf3 e2 $3 37. Kxe2 f3+ $5 38. Kxf3 Bxh2 39. Kg2 Bc7 40. Kh3 Ke5 41. Kh4 Kd5 42. Kh5 Kc5 43. Kxh6 Kxb5 44. Kg5 a5 0-1

[John Upham]

this is the father Jonathan Blackburn not the top player son, i play an old system i developed against the london system, which is similar to the 2...c6 system[Event "Manchester Summer Congress(Major)"] [Site "?"] [Date "2017.08.18"] [Round "4"] [White "Blackburn, Jon"] [Black "Llewellyn, Alan Mansel"] [Result "0-1"] [ECO "A46"] [WhiteElo "1778"] [BlackElo "1400"] [Annotator "Llewellyn,Alan"] [PlyCount "88"] [EventDate "2017.??.??"] 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 h6 3. Bf4 g5 4. Bg3 Bg7 5. Nbd2 d5 6. e3 Ne4 7. Nxe4 dxe4 8. Ne5 Nc6 9. Bb5 Bd7 10. Nxc6 Bxc6 11. Bxc6+ bxc6 12. c4 c5 13. Qa4+ Qd7 14. Qxd7+ Kxd7 15. Rd1 cxd4 16. exd4 f5 $1 17. f3 $4 f4 18. Bf2 e3 19. Bg1 Ke6 $2 20. g3 $6 c6 21. gxf4 $2 gxf4 22. h4 Rad8 23. Bh2 Kf5 24. b3 Rxd4 25. Rxd4 Bxd4 26. Ke2 Rg8 27. Rg1 Rxg1 28. Bxg1 Bf6 29. b4 e5 30. a4 e4 (30... Bxh4 31. b5) 31. b5 cxb5 32. axb5 Bxh4 33. c5 Be7 34. c6 Bd6 35. Bh2 exf3+ 36. Kxf3 e2 $3 37. Kxe2 f3+ $5 38. Kxf3 Bxh2 39. Kg2 Bc7 40. Kh3 Ke5 41. Kh4 Kd5 42. Kh5 Kc5 43. Kxh6 Kxb5 44. Kg5 a5 0-1

If White had been a little more flexible then 2..h6? could have been followed by 3.c4

[JustinHorton]

I'm sure I remember a social media posting by Richard James where he mentioned seeing a game that started 1 d4 Nf6 2 Nf3 c5 3 Bf4* cxd4 and things got very bad for White very shortly afterwards


[* may have been 2 Bf4 and 3 Nf3]

[AlanLlewellyn]

If White had been a little more flexible then 2..h6? could have been followed by 3.c4

about the best thing that can be said of my whole play is it was speculative

[IM Jack Rudd]

I'm sure I remember a social media posting by Richard James where he mentioned seeing a game that started 1 d4 Nf6 2 Nf3 c5 3 Bf4* cxd4 and things got very bad for White very shortly afterwards


[* may have been 2 Bf4 and 3 Nf3]

I've certainly had that. It wasn't the hardest of winning positions to convert after white played 4.Nxd4??.

[Matt Mackenzie]

Back when I played the Latvian, the similar line 3 Nc3 Nc6 4 Bc4? fe4 5 Ne4?? d5 caught a few - some of them quite high rated.

(White can and should bale out with 5 Bg8, but even then after 5....Rg8 6 Ne4 d5 they are still clearly worse)