Paleface Attack

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
Neil Graham
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Paleface Attack

Post by Neil Graham » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:52 pm

Can anyone advise how and why (and even when) this opening got its name?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:30 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:52 pm
Can anyone advise how and why (and even when) this opening got its name?
For those of us who had never heard of it, the line runs 1. d4 Nf6 2. f3.

As to where the name comes from, pass, but the idea is a sort of Blackmar-Diemer deferred.

An old thread on the chesspub site

https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/ ... 1070314343

Gunderam is mentioned as analysing it in one of the chesspub posts which dates it some way back in time.

The line 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. f3 is respectable, being played by top GMs from time to time.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:05 pm

As 1.d4 Nf6 is usually designated an Indian system, as it was first played in India, I would guess someone had been watching an old western movie, where the "Indians" (before they were called "Native Americans") referred to their opposition as "Paleface". So maybe someone thought it would be funny to name an anti-Indian attack as "Paleface"? I wonder if the term were ever used in real life. Probably not, as they would not have been speaking English.

Looking at https://www.cleanchess.com/a45-a50-indian.html

the first item is the Basque Opening. Sorry to derail the thread, but is that a reference to Spain or fancy nightwear?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:58 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:05 pm
So maybe someone thought it would be funny to name an anti-Indian attack as "Paleface"?
Looking up the history of the position at move 2, Tartakower reached it in 1954, but transposed it to a Diemer. ARB Thomas gave it a try against PH Clarke in the 1962 British and that headed off in its own direction.

In British chess, Neil Graham (!) has played it a lot.

Google tells me there was a 1948 film titled "The Paleface".

I suppose it could have been Eric Schiller who named it, but I didn't find any confirmation other than him writing about it as a BDG move order idea.

Neil Graham
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by Neil Graham » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:31 pm

This opening seems a very late addition as a separate named entity. I was wondering if Kevin's explanation was correct which was one of the reasons I asked if anyone could throw any light on it's origins. As regards "The Paleface" movie - my recollection without looking it up is that it's star was Bob Hope. As someone who occasionally plays this system, as noted by Roger, you need plenty of hope.

Finally regarding the Basque opening, I recall that several citizens from North Spain got stuck in a revolving door when leaving a large store in Bilbao which just goes to show that you shouldn't put all your Basques in one exit.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:36 pm

"Finally regarding the Basque opening, I recall that several citizens from North Spain got stuck in a revolving door when leaving a large store in Bilbao which just goes to show that you shouldn't put all your Basques in one exit."

Brilliant!

I recall watching the Bob Hope film years ago. One internet dictionary says that "paleface" was attributed to "Indians" about 1815-1825, but it seemed to be used by "palefaces" not "Indians", so probably some writer thought it sounded dramatic.

John Upham
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by John Upham » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:42 pm

Schiller in UCO, page 202 discusses the Gedult Attack viz :

1.d4 Sf6 2. f3 d5 3. g4 claiming it looks like a Gibbins - Wiedehagen Gambit.
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Neil Graham
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by Neil Graham » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:02 pm

John Upham wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:42 pm
Schiller in UCO, page 202 discusses the Gedult Attack viz :

1.d4 Sf6 2. f3 d5 3. g4 claiming it looks like a Gibbins - Wiedehagen Gambit.
The Gibbins-Wiedenhagen Gambit is 1. d4 Nf6 2. g4

Is the above spelling yours or another Eric Schiller misprint?

Vachier Lagrave played it in a blitz against Yi Wei last year so I presume it's sound! :)

Other players who espouse this gambit include Simon Williams and Humphrey Bogart.

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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by John Upham » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:11 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:02 pm
John Upham wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:42 pm
Schiller in UCO, page 202 discusses the Gedult Attack viz :

1.d4 Sf6 2. f3 d5 3. g4 claiming it looks like a Gibbins - Wiedehagen Gambit.
The Gibbins-Wiedenhagen Gambit is 1. d4 Nf6 2. g4

Is the above spelling yours or another Eric Schiller misprint?

Vachier Lagrave played it in a blitz against Yi Wei last year so I presume it's sound! :)

Other players who espouse this gambit include Simon Williams and Humphrey Bogart.
I was using ESs spelling which I neglected to confirm.
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John Clarke
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by John Clarke » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:22 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:36 pm
One internet dictionary says that "paleface" was attributed to "Indians" about 1815-1825, but it seemed to be used by "palefaces" not "Indians", so probably some writer thought it sounded dramatic.
I might be mistaken, but I believe it was James Fenimore Cooper (Last Of The Mohicans, etc) who invented the term, or at any rate popularised it, along with other cliched phrases ("white man speak with forked tongue", and so on).
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:05 am

"I might be mistaken, but I believe it was James Fenimore Cooper (Last Of The Mohicans, etc) who invented the term, or at any rate popularised it, along with other cliched phrases ("white man speak with forked tongue", and so on)."

Published in 1826, so quite possible.

Nick Grey
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:40 pm

Last Of The Mohicans. "I agree

India pale ale (IPA) Attack was popular in the 1980s. befo re during after a game.

Neil Graham
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by Neil Graham » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:03 pm

Could I thank everyone for their contributions so far. As Indian defences were named after India it's rather confusing that the so-called Paleface Attack is supposedly an antidote to the Red Indians of America. So to date a patchy response.

I note that recently Donald Trump said he'd wear a mask "like the Lone Ranger" - those of us who remember the Lone Ranger might find that amusing.

The Lone Ranger and Tonto were riding through the desert when the thunder of hooves could be heard behind them.

The Lone Ranger turned and saw 100 Indians on horses pursuing them. He spoke to Tonto "We're being chased by 100 Sioux," to which Tonto replied "Yes, Kemosabe". Turning he saw more Indians "And on our left, 100 Comanches" to which Tonto replied "Yes, Kemosabe"
"And to our right, 100 Pawnee" "Yes Kemosabe" and finally "This canyon finishes in a dead end" to which Tonto replied "What you say, Paleface?"

Tim Spanton
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by Tim Spanton » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:02 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:03 pm
Could I thank everyone for their contributions so far. As Indian defences were named after India it's rather confusing that the so-called Paleface Attack is supposedly an antidote to the Red Indians of America. So to date a patchy response.

I note that recently Donald Trump said he'd wear a mask "like the Lone Ranger" - those of us who remember the Lone Ranger might find that amusing.

The Lone Ranger and Tonto were riding through the desert when the thunder of hooves could be heard behind them.

The Lone Ranger turned and saw 100 Indians on horses pursuing them. He spoke to Tonto "We're being chased by 100 Sioux," to which Tonto replied "Yes, Kemosabe". Turning he saw more Indians "And on our left, 100 Comanches" to which Tonto replied "Yes, Kemosabe"
"And to our right, 100 Pawnee" "Yes Kemosabe" and finally "This canyon finishes in a dead end" to which Tonto replied "What you say, Paleface?"
Thank goodness for that - I thought for a moment the joke was going to be racist

Nick Grey
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Re: Paleface Attack

Post by Nick Grey » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:28 pm

Taumata-whaka-tangi-hanga-kuayuwo-tamate-aturi-pukaku-piki-maunga-horonuku-pokaiawhen-uaka-tana-tahu-mataku-atanganu-akawa-miki-tora

Quantum Jump song withh a Tonto / Lone Ranger joke

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