Cecil de Vere

[John Townsend]

To amuse myself the other day, I tried to find Cecil de Vere (said to have been born Valentine Brown) on various English (1851, 1861, 1871) and Scottish (1851) censuses. But I am none the wiser, having searched on different combinations of Cecil/Valentine/Brown/de Vere. Would I get any references to the census if I bought a copy of The English Morphy, do you think? Has anyone found him in a census?

With best wishes,

John Townsend,
Author of "Notes on the Life of Howard Staunton"
http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk/ind ... age324.htm

[Richard James]

John

Congratuations on the Staunton book - a very intersting and enjoyable read.

I have my copy of The English Morphy in front of me now. I quote:

"It is believed he was born Cecil Valentine Brown, on 14th February 1845, (St Valentine's Day - RJ) lthough no birth certificate has been identified, and there is some doubt over the exact year. According to his friend, the player and writer Revd. George MacDonnell, he was called Valentine by his mother. No researcher has ever ascertained the identity of his father. According to MacDonnell, De Vere had relatives near Dundee, where they both played in the Congress of 1867. At the Paris Congress of June 1867 his birthplace was strangely listed as "Sterling, Angleterre". (sic. - RJ) From this, we may infer that there may well have been a Scottish connection somewhere in his family history."

Later, we learn that shortly before his death he moved to Torquay where he was buried, just a few metres from another Cecil De Vere - William Cecil De Vere, a long-standing resident of Torquay and a descendant of the 15th Earl of Oxford, whom some think might have been the real author of Shakespeare's plays. The authors speculate that Cecil Valentine might have been the illegitimate son of William Cecil.

Yes, you should buy the book. Not many people buy books on chess history so, as a matter of principle, chess historians should support each other.

Meanwhile, Cecil Valentine should have been in London at the time of the 1861 and 1871 censuses. I'll have a look myself.

[Geoff Chandler]

Hi John

Good Luck.

In 1979/80 (I cannot the exact time) I spent a smashing 3 days
with David Hooper at what they now call New Register House
looking for the birth certificate of Cecil de Vere.

We too looked for Brown's and Valentine's but could find nothing conclusive.
If I recall David thought he may be Cecil Brown and Valentine as a middle-name
because he was born the 14th Feb.

What a methodical man he was and a bundle of knowledge.
I can recall his look of puzzlement when he saw Capablanca's signature
in the Edinurgh's visitors book. He was unaware Capa played in Edinburgh.

I explained that Capa did not play in Edinburgh, the secretary took the
book to Glasgow for him sign!

An amusing note here.
I worked at Mappin & Webb at the time and took a few days off.
We had to pass M&W on the way from the Edinburgh Club to the Records Office.

We bumped into my boss!
I introduced David as my father who I had not seen for 15 years.
David played his part rather well and I did not get sacked.

So David Hooper is my Dad and thanks to a joke remark I made ages ago
and cannot seem to undo, at least half of the Red Hot Pawn site think
Murray Chandler is my Son and I'm the Dad he writes about.

Years later I used the 'tricks' I learned from David when I researched
my piece about Richard Jordan who was the World Draughts Champion
when he was hit by a cable car and died a few days later.

He was also played chess but I failed to unearth any games just a few mentions in BCM.

Spooky coincidence at the end when I discovered I lived in the same
house (1959 - 1963) as Jordan's son.

(At the same as I lived in the Edinburgh Chess Club, My Mum lived the same house
as George Page who won the Edinburgh Chess Club Championship 15 times....how odd is that?)

Link to the Jordan piece.

http://www.chessedinburgh.co.uk/chandle ... ChandID=55

Possibly the most sensible thing I have ever written.
I received some smashing feedback from the Draughts/Checkers World.
Where by the way Pillsbury is very highly rated.
I read on one of their sites that Pillsbury was '...also quite good at chess!'

Thanks John for twigging the memory cells.

Geoff

[John Townsend]

Thank you, Richard, for your kind remarks about my book, Notes on the Life of Howard Staunton. Yes, I plan to buy a copy of The English Morphy.

Cecil de Vere seems an elusive character. I see an entry in the death indexes for the quarter ending 31 March 1875: BROWN Cecil Valentine, age 29, in the reg. district of Newton Abbot.

According to Sergeant, he was said to have been taught chess at the age of twelve by Francis Burden; and Rev. G.A. MacDonnell met him when he was fourteen, on the introduction of Burden, who called him "Valentine". (P.W. Sergeant, A century of British chess, 1934, p. 124.)

Sergeant also says he began to visit the Divan on Saturday afternoons in 1860, and was still a frequent visitor there in 1862. (Ibid., pp. 124-5). Therefore, I would agree with Richard that there should be a good chance of finding him in or near London in the 1861 census, and it occurred to me that that might be one way to get a handle on the problem.

Best wishes,

John Townsend,
Author of "Notes on the Life of Howard Staunton"
http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk/ind ... age324.htm

[Richard James]

There's nothing obvious in either the 1861 or 1871 census under any combination of Cecil, Valentine, De Vere or Brown.

I note that William Cecil De Vere was the Captain of HMS Agamemnon in the 1861 census.

The theory that Cecil Valentine was the illegitimate son of William Cecil seems highly plausible to me. It would quite likely accout for the lack of a birth record (which often happened for illegitimate children at that time) but not for his absence from both the 1861 and 1871 censuses. He should have been in London at the time both censuses were taken.

[PeterTurland]

Chess games have him, one wonders if he had not died so young at 29, would the English chess scene have been any different?

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=79407

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Yes, you should buy the book. Not many people buy books on chess history so, as a matter of principle, chess historians should support each other.

Well, I bought that book (and enjoyed it very much). Haven't got round to the Staunton one yet (was that a limited print run or print on demand?).

[John Townsend]

Christopher, you enquired about my Staunton book. It is a limited edition of 100 copies. You can get further information by following the link below.

Best wishes,

John Townsend,
Author of "Notes on the Life of Howard Staunton"
http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk/ind ... age324.htm

[John Townsend]

I am obliged to Owen Hindle, co-author of The English Morphy, for telling me that some important discoveries about Cecil De Vere's family background were made subsequent to publication of the book, and that British Chess Magazine carried relevant material in the Quotes & Queries column, conducted by Chris Ravilious, in Dec. 2003, Feb. 2004, and Nov. 2005. Who would have guessed that he was born Valentine John Cecil De Vere Mathews, in the parish of St. James's Westminster, on 14 Feb. 1846?

There is food for thought here ...

John Townsend,
Author of "Notes on the Life of Howard Staunton"
http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk/ind ... age324.htm

[James Pratt]

there should be a review of John's book on Howard Staunton, by John S Hilbert, in BCM due course. I played through all the games in the Hindle/Jones magnum opus but did not find Cecil's play too special. Sadly, as we know, he died young. His best chess was perhaps ahead of him.

James Pratt
BCM ET

[Jon Mahony]

there should be a review of John's book on Howard Staunton, by John S Hilbert, in BCM due course. I played through all the games in the Hindle/Jones magnum opus but did not find Cecil's play too special. Sadly, as we know, he died young. His best chess was perhaps ahead of him.

James Pratt
BCM ET

Is this the same John S Hilbert who wrote the book on Norman Tweed Whitaker? I took about 2 months finishing that last year - good book, I found the stuff on the Lindbergh kidnapping a big long winded, considering Whitaker simply attempted a con-trick to extort money from the family, and wasn't actually involved. But a good read.

[John Townsend]

Further to my last post, I subsequently found Cecil/Valentine and his mother on the censuses of 1851 and 1861. I also seem to have a note of her death registration.

I suspect this ground is only what was covered in those issues of B.C.M. which Owen Hindle kindly alerted me to. I haven't seen copies of them yet. Would someone with access to them care to post a summary of what they contained? I would then be glad to post anything of mine which seems to add to what was published (probably nothing).

Best wishes,

John Townsend,
Author of "Notes on the Life of Howard Staunton"
http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk/ind ... age324.htm

[John Townsend]

I understand the gen from the '51 was not published.

In 1851 "Valentine de Vere" was described as a visitor, aged 5, born London, Middlesex, in the household of Mary Best, at 24 Warwick Place, Parish of St. Geo. Hanover Square. She was a 25-year-old married woman, "Householder", born Hanslope, Bucks.. Another visitor, Emma Robinson, was 25 years of age, married, born Harrogate.
(National Archives, HO 107/1478, f. 15).

Meanwhile, his mother, Catherine Devere, is to be found at No. 3, Dean's Yard Terrace, "Servant", unmarried, aged 21, a nurse, born "Brikton".

"Brikton" remains to be identified. A possibility may be that she was indicating Brecon, which would be consistent with "Wales", which was given in 1861.

Best wishes,

John Townsend,
Author of "Notes on the Life of Howard Staunton"
http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk/ind ... age324.htm

[John Townsend]

I must correct my typing error: age of Emma Robinson 24 (not 25).

Regards,

John Townsend,
Author of "Notes on the Life of Howard Staunton"
http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk/ind ... age324.htm

[Gordon Cadden]

I understand the gen from the '51 was not published.

In 1851 "Valentine de Vere" was described as a visitor, aged 5, born London, Middlesex, in the household of Mary Best, at 24 Warwick Place, Parish of St. Geo. Hanover Square. She was a 25-year-old married woman, "Householder", born Hanslope, Bucks.. Another visitor, Emma Robinson, was 25 years of age, married, born Harrogate.
(National Archives, HO 107/1478, f. 15).

Meanwhile, his mother, Catherine Devere, is to be found at No. 3, Dean's Yard Terrace, "Servant", unmarried, aged 21, a nurse, born "Brickton".

"Brickton" remains to be identified. A possibility may be that she was indicating Brecon, which would be consistent with "Wales", which was given in 1861.

Best wishes,

John Townsend,
Author of "Notes on the Life of Howard Staunton"
http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk/ind ... age324.htm

Dean's Yard is at the heart of Westminster School, adjacent to Westminster Abbey. The Terrace does not exist on London maps. "Brickton" is likely to be Brixton, South of the River Thames. I have a copy of the Paris 1867 Tournament Book, in which Cecil De Vere gave his place of birth as Sterling (Stirling ?) An official must have entered "Angleterre", not realising that Stirling is in Scotland. Cecil must have lied about his place of birth, or a relative lied to him.
I quote from the BCM "Quotes and Queries" for November, 2005. "Owen's second breakthrough came with the discovery of the elusive birth certificate. From this we learn that Valentine John Cecil De Vere was born on St. Valentine's Day 1846 (not 1845 as some sources have suggested), at 46 Warwick Street, just to the East of Regent Street. (While not in St. George's parish, Warwick Street is near enough for the divergence between this and the census return to be readily explicable.) Valentine's mother's name is entered as Catherine Mathews, and by a clerical slip-up the same appellation appears under "name of father", where it has been crossed through and replaced by a mysterious "No.12" plus the registrar's initials. "Occupation of father" is entered as surgeon".
Warwick Street comes under the church parish of St. George's, Hanover Square. If his father was a surgeon, then he should be listed with the Royal College of Surgeons.