The best Chesse player in England

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: The best Chesse player in England

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sat Dec 24, 2022 3:16 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Dec 24, 2022 12:19 am
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:47 pm
According to wiki, Sir Edward Ford was a commander on the King's side in the English Civil War.
Something that struck me was that documentaries and historical fiction about the Tudor period are plentiful. There's next to nothing that I can think of about Cromwell and the English Civil War.
That must be partly down to his period being largely treated as an aberration and a failure by subsequent historians?

And to a degree that attitude retains its influence to the present day.

(this is an instance where that old adage "history is written by the winners" certainly applies)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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John Clarke
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Re: The best Chesse player in England

Post by John Clarke » Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:21 pm

For a really thought-provoking assessment of the early Stuarts and the Civil War period, I'd recommend Part 4 of The Offshore Islanders by Paul Johnson. In Johnson's view, it was Charles I who was the aberration, seeking to hold back the intellectual revolution that had begun to stir in England during the reign of Elizabeth I, and return to a backwards-looking absolutist monarchy like those seen in much of Europe. Cromwell on the other hand represented the future. and although his regime eventually failed through the flaw common to most dictatorships (no sensible succession plan), " .... the England of 1660 contained the chromosomes of a modern country, the first in the history of the world".
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

Phil Neatherway
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Re: The best Chesse player in England

Post by Phil Neatherway » Sun Dec 25, 2022 10:56 pm

it was Charles I who was the aberration
I agree. For example, he ruled without Parliament from 1629 to 1640.

Joseph Conlon
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Re: The best Chesse player in England

Post by Joseph Conlon » Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:48 pm

John Townsend wrote:
Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:43 am
I've been trying to identify the "Col. Bishop" in Aubrey's Brief Lives (the best chessplayer in England!). My best guess at present is Sir Edward Bishopp, who (according to Foster's Alumni Oxonienses) matriculated at Trinity College, Oxford, on 22 October, 1619, aged 18. He was high sheriff, Sussex, 1635, and governor of Arundel Castle, 1643; died 1649.

Sir Edward Forde (matric. 16 July, 1621, aged 16) was a royalist colonel, who was governor of Arundel Castle, 1642; died 1670.

So there are distinct parallels between Sir Edward Forde and Sir Edward Bishopp.
Apologies for my late reply: I asked my colleague about the two Edwards, and got the below: he thinks there is a chance that someone's memory (either Aubrey or Francis Potter) was conflating Edward Bishop and Edward Forde, given the similarities in names and lifestyles: but which one was the chess player is then not settled.

"On this, just looking at Kate Bennett’s authoritative edition of Aubrey’s Brief Lives (OUP, 2016), pp. 190, 1034 (the latter page being commentary on the former page): she too identifies Edward, but also a Thomas Bishop, fellow from 1608. But she also says neither are in the Army Lists, albeit the former had a military career. For me therefore this has to be Edward, or Edward has to be a mistake for Forde. They matriculated within two years of one another (former 1619, latter 1621, as your correspondent says). This all comes from Aubrey’s life of Francis Potter, but Aubrey was only born in 1626, so it is quite possible that either he or Potter confused the two men in memory – or indeed that they both were good! Bennett also notes that Aubrey encouraged chess in his ideal (if unpublished) school curriculum An Idea of Education too . . ."

John Townsend
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Re: The best Chesse player in England

Post by John Townsend » Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:23 pm

An interesting reply, Joseph, for which thanks. It had occurred to me too that there may have been confusion between the two Sir Edwards, which is partly why I said there were "distinct parallels between" them.