English Chess Forum

The following question was posed on a Facebook Pub Quiz forum:

Who was the cultural model for the queen in the game of chess, in its present power as a piece, as given to it in the late 15th century?

I think it is well established that modern chess historians fancy Isabella la Catolica/Isabella of Castile as the graven image of the chess queen.

I believe the chess queen with new powers was sometimes referred to as the 'mad queen'. Perhaps if people associated the piece with an actual queen it might have been wise to avoid this term.

Paul McKeown wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:36 pm

I think it is well established that modern chess historians fancy Isabella la Catolica/Isabella of Castile as the graven image of the chess queen.

I agree but the question setter is saying not Isabella I of Castile.

I will report what he thinks is the correct answer.

A more fitting model might have been Margaret of Anjou (1430-82), queen of England, well-known for her ferocious efforts on behalf of her ineffectual husband Henry VI. But I'd have said she was too far away from the epicentre of chess developments to have much influence (the new rules evolved in Italy and Spain).

I've suggested Queen Elizabeth I of England in an attempt to coax the question setter out of hiding.

Pub quizzes (and even some TV quizzes) do tend to suffer from the problem that what the question setter thinks is a correct answer isn't.

Unless it appears on Mastermind or 15-1 perhaps.

"Unless it appears on Mastermind or 15-1 perhaps."

Sadly no, but admittedly not often.

Paul McKeown wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:36 pm

I think it is well established that modern chess historians fancy Isabella la Catolica/Isabella of Castile as the graven image of the chess queen.

I always thought that as well, though there is something in Murray's History about when the Queen's
powers were increased some tried to call the 'new' piece an Amazon, but this never caught on.

At the same time some writers where advocating an Archer for a Bishop and the Rook was to be called a Cyclops.
(I feel we missed a chance here. Opposite coloured Archers!...and a Cyclops of the 7th sounds terrifying.)

I'm guessing that who ever set the pub quiz question probably has Queen Isabella of Spain as the answer
which although historically inaccurate is generally accepted as her title.
(out of curiosity I googled Columbus and she is referred to as ' Isabella I of Castile' then later as 'Queen Isabella,'
It is easy to see how a mistake in titling happened and 'Queen Isabella of Spain' made it's way into one of these 'Did You Know?' books)

So If you answer ' Isabella la Catolica' or 'Isabella of Castile' they might think this is a different person.
(I wonder how many people in the pub quiz did not know the answer and just wrote down 'Beth Harmon.' )

Geoff Chandler wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:30 pm

Paul McKeown wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:36 pm

I think it is well established that modern chess historians fancy Isabella la Catolica/Isabella of Castile as the graven image of the chess queen.

'm guessing that who ever set the pub quiz question probably has Queen Isabella of Spain as the answer
which although historically inaccurate is generally accepted as her title.
(out of curiosity I googled Columbus and she is referred to as ' Isabella I of Castile' then later as 'Queen Isabella,'
It is easy to see how a mistake in titling happened and 'Queen Isabella of Spain' made it's way into one of these 'Did You Know?' books)

So If you answer ' Isabella la Catolica' or 'Isabella of Castile' they might think this is a different person.

Yes .... somewhere on this Forum (can't be bothered looking for it right now) there's an account of just this sort of incident involving a question about the gentleman variously known as Mustapha Kemal, Kemal Ataturk, or even simply Ataturk.

In a pub quiz I once had the question "Vladimir Kramnik was a world champion in chess, and in which other game?" - the answer was given as Tiddlywinks. I never did find any citation to that claim.

The only other game he is noted as playing is Poker, I am sure it would have come out in due course had he been the world champion at that also.

The question appears to have been deleted without the setter revealing his answer.

I was looking forward to that!