English Chess Forum

A well-sourced critique of English chess culture (cited earlier in this thread):
https://www.kingpinchess.net/2013/08/its-only-chess-2/

Nick Ivell wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:54 pm

Perhaps there was nothing sinister in Keene losing his columns.

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:50 pm

I don't believe this and neither do you ...

Nor does RDK himself.

John Saunders wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:28 pm

What I have done here, many years ago, is to speak out against posters who think it's OK to traduce anyone who has ever been in the same room as Keene at chess events ...

John, I look forward to seeing you at the next Varsity Match. I shall certainly not be deterred from attending because I know that RDK is also likely to be there.

David Sedgwick wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:12 pm

John Saunders wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:28 pm

What I have done here, many years ago, is to speak out against posters who think it's OK to traduce anyone who has ever been in the same room as Keene at chess events ...

John, I look forward to seeing you at the next Varsity Match. I shall certainly not be deterred from attending because I know that RDK is also likely to be there.

Who is responsible for inviting him?

As a Cambridge graduate I'm not sure Keene needs to be invited.

I dropped in uninvited in 2011, and even took my mother with me.

Nick Ivell wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:24 pm

Sorry, but I have more to add to the charge sheet.

I have said on previous threads that the book on Nimzowitsch is excellent.

*** rips off epaulettes, slaps both sides of face vigorously ***

"Here's a revolver, Ivell. You know what you have to do."

David Sedgwick wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:12 pm

John Saunders wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:28 pm

What I have done here, many years ago, is to speak out against posters who think it's OK to traduce anyone who has ever been in the same room as Keene at chess events ...

John, I look forward to seeing you at the next Varsity Match. I shall certainly not be deterred from attending because I know that RDK is also likely to be there.

A most courageous decision, David. Don't say later that I didn't warn you.

Nick Ivell wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:40 pm

As a Cambridge graduate I'm not sure Keene needs to be invited.

I dropped in uninvited in 2011, and even took my mother with me.

No-one needs an invitation to the match. but invitees also get to attend the dinner.

Gerard Killoran wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:34 pm

Who is responsible for inviting him?

I don't wish to answer that. I don't wish them to be hassled by the anti-Keene brigade.

It is literally not disputed by anybody that RDK wrote some good books early in his career. Straw men like this aren't really helpful.

After Paul Cooksey raised the subject of alleged cases of compensation for Raymond Keene's plagiarism, I wrote here yesterday:

"One injured party who was certainly never compensated is Edward Winter. A substantial text of his was plagiarized three times by Raymond Keene: in The Spectator, on a webpage and in a book by Keene. Mr Winter complained in Chess Notes, and also directly to the Editor of The Spectator (who never replied). That clear-cut case of plagiarism by Raymond Keene was even mentioned in Private Eye, but Mr Winter never received a word of apology, let alone compensation."

Mr Cooksey's answer:

"I am not aware of any injured party being denied their right to compensation for GM Keene's plagiarism. I do not know why Mr Winter chose not to exercise his right, although some of the more obvious possible explanations might support the position I am arguing."

I do not know what that is supposed to mean.

O.G. Urcan

I see I have been promoted further to Mr Cooksey, which is very gratifying. My point is that it would be more helpful for Olimpiu to ask Mr Winter why he chose not to sue than for me to speculate.

John Saunders wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:28 pm

ridiculous anonymous attack website which attempts to bully people into 'making a stand against' Keene.

How would it do that then

Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:14 am

It is literally not disputed by anybody that RDK wrote some good books early in his career. Straw men like this aren't really helpful.

Though maybe they are, in the sense that it demonstrates that straw men are the only kind that are available.

(It's the same with all the squawking and screeching, I just take it that it makes my point for me, and I'm very happy for it to continue.)

On 27 March 2015 I contributed this post:

Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titles."
Post by O.G. Urcan » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:41 am

I suggest that three basic questions are worth consideration:

1) Is plagiarism wrong?

2) Does proof exist that Raymond Keene has plagiarized a substantial amount of material?

3) Is it proper for plagiarists' conduct to be brought to the public's attention?

My own answers are: yes, yes and yes.

Do any participants in the current discussion disagree with my three answers?

Many thanks in advance.

O.G. Urcan

O.G. Urcan wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:49 am

Do any participants in the current discussion disagree with my three answers?

This misses the point so much that I doubt there is much point in responding to it, since it is probably deliberate. But still...

We are not discussing these points which are neither contentious or disputed. A post of this type would be appropriate if those points were at issue. But repeating it in the discussion we are having suggests that the poster is unwilling to engage with the issue we are discussing, which is what is a proportionate response to plagiarism.

Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:14 am

It is literally not disputed by anybody that RDK wrote some good books early in his career. Straw men like this aren't really helpful.

Hi Matt,

I was reading that as Nick using his previous reference to one of RDK's books in the same way as a 'don't mention the war' joke.
I mentioned once that I liked a RDK book - but I think I got away with it type of thing.

The Keenaphobiacs have long memories, you say something, it could be anything in Ray's favour and your name is added to the list.

And speaking of lists.

Hi Justin,

The 'anonymous attack website' where people are giving a Keene like/dislike rating which I thought was piece of nonsense but some see it differently.
It reads like the higher the number the more you endorse Ray's plagiarism so you are in effect being bullied into defending yourself by taking a
tougher stance and break out in spots every time Ray is mentioned when in reality all they want is to be left in peace and not labelled in this way.

Hi Olimpiu,

Yes to all three from me as well.