English Chess Forum

The issues of Vol 19 are at my club, but that won't be opening again for a few weeks yet.

Hi Matt,

It will turn up, just strange that is the only one missing. It was at the time CHESS changed size to the smaller version,
suspect vol 19 is simply misplaced. The large 'not to be lent out cabinet' has about 1,000 books in it
and is in the process of being sorted. But why did it have to be the only one I wanted!

'The issues of Vol 19 are at my club....'

Sshhhhhh! Other eyes are reading this forum.
I think all the mentions of Chessbomb has put this site on the watch list.

Hi Matt and all who pm'd.

Volume 19 is something of a rarity. I've been informed by another who has the full set bar No.19.
(IS there one?....if you have one triple the insurance....and don't let anybody know. )

Fortunately I was able to knock up a vol. 19 from the loose issues ( Dec and Jan are in the same issue.)
Nothing yet or even a hint on solving game 658 but what cheerful research. Pages of glorious chess history.

Geoff, I am interested in games between PH Clarke and Dr Aitken. Can you help? (Rewriting my biography of Peter)

James

James Pratt wrote: ↑

Fri May 14, 2021 11:31 pm

Geoff, I am interested in games between PH Clarke and Dr Aitken. Can you help? (Rewriting my biography of Peter)

James

The games input so far are available for download at BritBase: https://www.saund.org.uk/britbase/pgn/a ... iewer.html

They are being input and published systematically, book by book, and it won't be too long until the job's completed.

Cheers

James Pratt wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 12:44 am

Cheers

Hi James,

What I'll do is check the Aitken index and next time I do a book (20) starting tomorrow. Today is cup final day!

I'll jump ahead and add in all the Aitken - Clarke games that I have that are not already entered into the Database.
A quick count, without checking what John has on Britbase is seven, the last being in 1980 a Peter win.
I suspect a few of those will already be in.

Sometimes, not always, Aitken adds a wee piece of background to the games.

"one of my best games", "Adjudicated a loss, I appealed and it was changed to a draw.' etc.
If there is anything added to the Clarke games I make sure they get on.

Roughly what proportion of all the games are adjudications?

Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:04 pm

Roughly what proportion of all the games are adjudications?

Hi Matt,

Sorry about the delay, I've added where Aitken mentions it if the game was adjudicated.
Off the top of my head I cannot give an answer that may or may not come close.
I have entered so many Aitken games, must be close to 1,000 now, I've no idea.

They pop up from time to time, the successful appeal was the only one I can recall seeing.
Sometimes the game stops and Aitken (he wins the majority - though see below) is in a very good position
though not quite resignable here you can guess that adjudication, if indeed it was in place, was not needed.

The appealed game was Aitken v Mutkin, National Club Ch. 1957. (the last move was Black playing 23...d4-d3)

1r4k1/4nppp/p1rq4/2n1p3/Pp2P3/1P1p1P2/2PNQ1PP/R3BRK1 w - - 0 26

Originally a loss, Aitken appealed and it was changed to a draw. Source: Aitken Book 18. John has added:

COMEDY OF APPEALS

"The Cheltenham v Oxford University match in the National Club Championship ended 2-1 for Cheltenham with three games unfinished.

Alexander v Tylor was adjudicated (as reported in CHESS) in favour of the Oxford don.
J. M. Aitken's game was given lost and J. C. Cock a win.

This made the result 3-3 with Cheltenham losing by elimination of bottom board. Aitken appealed successfully,
his result was changed to a draw so that Cheltenham became win­ners.

Then Oxford appealed against the verdict on board five!
This second appeal was also successful, so that the original result, a loss for Cheltenham, was re-established.

Meanwhile, before even the first appeal had been allowed, Oxford had played Leicester in the next round,
Oxford lost and been eliminated from the competition!"
(CHESS, June 1957, p243 - vol.22, no.s 293-4)} 1/2-1/2)

Are you not glad adjudications and adjournments have all but disappeared. (does any league still use them?)

Sorry again for the fudged answer but I honestly do not know.

Geoff Chandler wrote: ↑

Sun May 16, 2021 1:15 pm

Are you not glad adjudications and adjournments have all but disappeared. (does any league still use them?)

Oh, yes. Adjudications still feature in many competitions and are still ECF graded / rated.

Looking at that position without an engine, it seems to me that Black is much better.

I wouldn't be able to prove a win though!

Hi Nick,

Just popped back to add the quote from Matt so he catches it.

Mrs. C. champing at the bit to get on and catch up with her chums on facebook.

Really, adjudications are still go on. Are computers involved. Surely an onsite computer could resolve the matter there and then.

Can they just not tweak the time controls to allow a quick play finish.
(I never read all the threads here, I know there is an ECF thread and rating thread which I never look at so
I strongly suspect I may be getting pointed to a long ongoing 10 years old dispute on this matter. OOPS!)

Edit:
Hi Nick II,

If the engines find a black win then we may be too late for a re-appeal.

I suspect that a computer will merely confirm my initial impression: that Black is much better, rather than winning.

Before anybody is tempted to discuss the merits and demerits of adjudication in general (for the umpteenth time), can I just put in a plea that this is the chess history board of the forum and therefore this thread is not the place to discuss that subject. We don't want to go off-topic. Discussing the specific position from the Aitken-Mutkin game or any other adjudication position found on the Aitken file is perfectly reasonable and relevant, of course.

Regarding the question of how many adjudications are amongst the games on the Aitken database, I suggest that interested parties download the database and see if they can work it out for themselves (though quite why anyone would wish to know this beats me). Geoff and I are still fully occupied getting the games input, processed and published and haven't the time to address such questions. A more general answer to the question is that pretty well all team matches played in England (and probably Scotland too - I have less knowledge of what happens north of the border) during Dr Aitken's era would have been subject to adjudication, but, then as now, the majority of them would have been resolved between the two sides without actually submitting them to an adjudicator. Usually the threat of adjudication is stronger than the execution.

Was adjudication at move 23 common?