Quiz Question

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John Upham
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Quiz Question

Post by John Upham » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:45 pm

This is probably far too easy but I'll ask anyway....

Which players who either were British citizens at the time or were to become British Citizens have played in an official world championship title match?
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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Quiz Question

Post by Gerard Killoran » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:12 pm

Isidor Gunsberg?

Richard Bodily
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Re: Quiz Question

Post by Richard Bodily » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:20 pm

Short & Zukertort?

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Quiz Question

Post by Gerard Killoran » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:24 pm

Vera Menchik

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Re: Quiz Question

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:32 pm

Michael Adams? lost to Kazimdzhanov (when Nigel and Garry broke away to have an unofficial match...)

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Re: Quiz Question

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:19 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:32 pm
Michael Adams? lost to Kazimdzhanov (when Nigel and Garry broke away to have an unofficial match...)
You are correct that it was Michael Adams. It was in Libya in 2004.

But it wasn't really a World Championship match. It was the Final of one of Kirsan Ilyumzhinov's World Championship Knockout Tournaments.

Richard Bodily wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:20 pm
Short & Zukertort?
The question refers to "an official world championship title match". If that is taken to be a FIDE sanctioned event, then Nigel Short didn't play in one.
Last edited by David Sedgwick on Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Quiz Question

Post by Tim Harding » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:23 pm

Gerald is right both times.

Gunsberg: Yes, he became a British citizen many years after his match with Steinitz.

Short: of course yes, unless you agree with David and don't count his Kasparov match as "official".

Zukertort: never a British citizen.

Menchik: yes, two matches with Sonia Graf (1934 and 1937) as well as world championship tournaments. I don't have her citizenship details but presumably she became a British subject when she married Stevenson, if not before then.

Adams: see David's posting

Of course the list gets much longer if we include world championship tournaments: FIDE KO and correspondence.
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Re: Quiz Question

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:35 pm

Tim Harding wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:23 pm
unless you agree with David and don't count his Kasparov match as "official".
You mean, because it quite specifically wasn't.
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MJMcCready
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Re: Quiz Question

Post by MJMcCready » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:53 pm

When questioned by the BBC Campomanes didn't see it as official, to which the BBC reporter asked which match had the better players Timman - Karpov or Short -Kasparov which was quite an apt retort I thought.

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Re: Quiz Question

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:17 pm

Gazza v Nosher can reasonably be considered "de facto" if not "de jure".

Certainly more so than some of the "official champions" FIDE had a few years later.
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Re: Quiz Question

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:44 pm

It doesn't really matter for the purposes of the question.
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Re: Quiz Question

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:35 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:44 pm
It doesn't really matter for the purposes of the question.
Perhaps I default too easily to quiz mode, but when I saw the question my first thought was that the word "official" was important, perhaps a trap, and ruled out Short.
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MJMcCready
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Re: Quiz Question

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:14 am

Even though it may not have been official, the bottom line was that it was the only match taken seriously at the time.

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Re: Quiz Question

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:47 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:35 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:44 pm
It doesn't really matter for the purposes of the question.
Perhaps I default too easily to quiz mode, but when I saw the question my first thought was that the word "official" was important, perhaps a trap, and ruled out Short.
Oh for sure, but as we know there's no agreement on the definition, people are going to give two sets of answers anyway.
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Re: Quiz Question

Post by John Upham » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:17 pm

Tim Harding wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:23 pm
Zukertort: never a British citizen.
I realise I am quoting a secondary/tertiary source but I will do so in any case :

From The Encyclopaedia of Chess by Anne Sunnucks :

"Meanwhile, Zukertort had decided to make England his permanent home and became a naturalised Englishman in l878."

Sadly (for me at least) I do not have Jimmy's wonderful book.

I assume Anne did not make-up the 1878 date.

Is being a "naturalised Englishman" the same as being a "British citizen"?

RJ tells me that the BCM 1888 obituary for JZ says

"he settled in London, becoming naturalized in 1878"

but that JBA could find no evidence of this.

Any help would be appreciated.
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