English Chess Forum

I was looking at the Wikipedia page for William Winter and was struck by the comment,

"Winter has the distinction of being the only British Champion to have served time in prison (for his political activities)."

I can think of others who should have been imprisoned, but is he really the only one? I'm thinking only of proper British Champions, not winners of subsidiary events.

Probably not. Tony Miles had a rather chequered career late on although I believe he was only detained before being sectioned.

Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:41 am

I was looking at the Wikipedia page for William Winter and was struck by the comment,

"Winter has the distinction of being the only British Champion to have served time in prison (for his political activities)."

I can think of others who should have been imprisoned, but is he really the only one? I'm thinking only of proper British Champions, not winners of subsidiary events.

I suppose Kevin is thinking of Brian Eley (1972 champion) who probably would have gone to prison had he not absconded from bail and is presumed to have fled abroad.

An other candidates?

Missing 'y' or extra 's''?

Tim Harding wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:55 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:41 am

I was looking at the Wikipedia page for William Winter and was struck by the comment,

"Winter has the distinction of being the only British Champion to have served time in prison (for his political activities)."

I can think of others who should have been imprisoned, but is he really the only one? I'm thinking only of proper British Champions, not winners of subsidiary events.

I suppose Kevin is thinking of Brian Eley (1972 champion) who probably would have gone to prison had he not absconded from bail and is presumed to have fled abroad.

An other candidates?

I believe that son of a gun shot off to Netherlands and underwent plastic surgery, so someone who encountered him many times in Buckinghamshire told me.

Well maybe, but in the absence of recorded statements by identifiable people, rumours don't actually tell us anything.

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:21 pm

Well maybe, but in the absence of recorded statements by identifiable people, rumours don't actually tell us anything.

I don't have anonymous sources. I know exactly who my sources are. It's everyone else's sources that are anonymous

Anyway, not a pleasant topic. Can we move on to more honorable and respectable members of the human race than him...was Stalin a former British Chess Champion?

"I suppose Kevin is thinking of Brian Eley (1972 champion) who probably would have gone to prison had he not absconded from bail and is presumed to have fled abroad."

I wasn't planning to name suspects... It has been alluded to elsewhere, but it was interesting that James Plaskett wrote a piece in "Chess" some years ago, complaining that Eley was appointed BCF Junior Coach AFTER several accusations had been made against him. Normal BCF reaction to that sort of report was either to ignore it or to be abusive to the reporter. On this occasion, they actually had a reply published in "Chess" saying, in effect, "well, we sacked him when he did it as BCF National coach". This seemed to me that they agreed that they had appointed him as James stated. It has to be said that in those days, any unpleasantness like accusations of that nature were routinely swept under the carpet, it did not necessarily mean that the people covering up were child molesters.

After the police let Eley go (why? they might not have had all 40+ statements, but they had enough), he went to Amsterdam where he frequently and openly visited a chess café. The proprietor confirmed that, and said as Eley had not been convicted he saw no reason to kick him out, and added that the UK police could visit any time they liked. Eley subsequently allegedly went to more Eastern countries.

As for other champions, I am aware of some that are reported to have committed sexual offences, assaults, theft etc. But these are only rumours of course (as Justin rightly says). I had completely forgotten about Tony Miles scaling the gates of Downing Street!

I was hoping for concrete information, perhaps British Chess Champions really are almost entirely a clean-living lot.

Well yes they are but in our culture, particularly amongst the aristocracy, there is the prevailing mentality, or at least a tendency, to think you can do whatever you so wish as long as you aren't caught or seen doing it. What goes on behind closed doors is kept there until documented or reported on which happens all too infrequently in my opinion... .

Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:07 am

... it was interesting that James Plaskett wrote a piece in "Chess" some years ago, complaining that Eley was appointed BCF Junior Coach AFTER several accusations had been made against him. Normal BCF reaction to that sort of report was either to ignore it or to be abusive to the reporter. On this occasion, they actually had a reply published in "Chess" saying, in effect, "well, we sacked him when he did it as BCF National coach". This seemed to me that they agreed that they had appointed him as James stated. It has to be said that in those days, any unpleasantness like accusations of that nature were routinely swept under the carpet, it did not necessarily mean that the people covering up were child molesters.

I haven't checked, but my recollection is that the correspondence was twenty years ago, in 1999. The reply stated, correctly, that Eley had not been appointed to any BCF position after 1980, although that was ostensibly for a different reason.

At that time, as Kevin indicates, victims of abuse were almost always ignored, so BCF officials were unlikely to have got far even if they had reported the matter to the police.

Nowadays, the Carl Beech case suggests that we may have gone too far in the other direction.

Well, you may wish to hesitate before drawing that general conclusion from that individual case, given that other cases of longstanding abuse, and official indifference to that abuse, continue to crop up on a regular basis.

"Nowadays, the Carl Beech case suggests that we may have gone too far in the other direction."

Well, society does yo-yo in attitudes. Unfortunately, Keir Starmer made a statement as head of CPS that anybody who complained of sexual abuse should be believed. I hope he meant that all accusations should be taken seriously, and investigated properly, but it has worked out that people have been falsely accused and maliciously named in the press and parliament, which is just as bad as covering up real offences.

It is wrong to prejudge any complaints.

Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:58 pm

"Nowadays, the Carl Beech case suggests that we may have gone too far in the other direction."

Well, society does yo-yo in attitudes. Unfortunately, Keir Starmer made a statement as head of CPS that anybody who complained of sexual abuse should be believed. I hope he meant that all accusations should be taken seriously, and investigated properly, but it has worked out that people have been falsely accused and maliciously named in the press and parliament, which is just as bad as covering up real offences.

It is wrong to prejudge any complaints.

Of course that is what he actually meant, and other interpretations are malicious. It was a statement made in the knowledge that historically, that all too often *didn't* happen (we can see this not just with high profile cases like Savile and Cyril Smith but others who *were* ultimately convicted - and people had made detailed and credible allegations years before)

A notorious jailbird (sic) was arguably the British champion seat-of-the-pants organiser