Nice 74

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
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Alex McFarlane
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Re: Nice 74

Post by Alex McFarlane » Mon May 10, 2021 12:12 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 11:50 am
He really is his own worst enemy. Why Ray? Why?
Hi Geoff,

I once said the same thing to another arbiter about him. The reply I got was "Not while I'm alive."

Unfortunately the person concerned no longer is alive, so you may be correct.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Nice 74

Post by JustinHorton » Mon May 10, 2021 12:14 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 11:50 am
Why do it, he is skilled enough to re-write and update his previous stuff.
Is he
Geoff Chandler wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 11:50 am
He must know any lazy slip like this is bound to be caught
Maybe though over the years he's got used to all kinds of toadies saying it doesn't matter
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Nice 74

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon May 10, 2021 12:16 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 9:46 am
...Becoming A Grandmaster...
Hi Justin,

Given his track record and the fact 'Becoming A Grandmaster,' is good
I'd be very surprised if something has not been rehashed from it or re-hashed into it.

Ray's articles in 'The Article' often get a FaceBook post and a link to the article.
Not by me but I usually give a 'like.' (I know...silly wee thing 'likes' but what-ever.)

I posted below the post that the bit about the bad publicity Ray got in the 70's was good.
Coming in from the angle it was undeserved and his games are pretty good.

But now I know a wee but more.

First post,posted not long after I read the article:

"A good article. A good bit in that piece about the negative press his playing style was
getting in the 70's. I too was warned off him till one day I look at a few of his games. (Wow!)"
(two likes!)

2nd post not long ago today:

"It appears, as I have later learned, that the negative press was not all that negative.
Why does Ray persist in giving those who dislike him ammunition.
I'm getting pelted for continuously defending him. It's getting more and more difficult."

and the link to relevant Edward Winters page was added.

Forgive and Forget regarding Ray may take a day or two. Good job I could never hold a grudge v any chess player.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Nice 74

Post by JustinHorton » Mon May 10, 2021 12:19 pm

Do you have a grudge against brevity?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Nice 74

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon May 10, 2021 12:26 pm

:D

Tim Harding
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Re: Nice 74

Post by Tim Harding » Mon May 10, 2021 2:59 pm

I am not in the habit of reading Ray's Articles but a couple of weeks ago he emailed me out of the blue.
He indicated he had given an (unsolicited) plug for my Steinitz in London book and invited me to give him plenty of stars on the site.

So I did begin to read the piece in question but after spotting three or four dubious historical statements including at least two that were definitely factually incorrect, I did not give the piece any feedback.

Nor did I respond to the email but, if you are reading this Ray, Steinitz did NOT write for the French newspaper Le Figaro.

If you had read far enough into my book you would have seen that Steinitz's second column was in James Mortimer's rag which at differing times was entitled London Figaro or plain Figaro.

Nor did Steinitz write a book entitled Modern Chess Theory. It was, of course, The Modern Chess Instructor.

After seeing that one, I stopped reading.

I have no idea whether in these passages Ray was recycling errors in previous writings (of his own or others), but the fact that my book was mentioned is some sort of proof that at least part of this particular piece was new.
Tim Harding
Historian and FIDE Arbiter

Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
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O.G. Urcan
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Re: Nice 74

Post by O.G. Urcan » Tue May 11, 2021 8:09 am

Tim Harding wrote:
"Nor did Steinitz write a book entitled Modern Chess Theory. It was, of course, The Modern Chess Instructor.

After seeing that one, I stopped reading.

I have no idea whether in these passages Ray was recycling errors in previous writings (of his own or others) ..."
In a footnote on page 266 of his 1999 book Kings, Commoners and Knaves, Edward Winter wrote:

"Mr Keene's ignorance of Steinitz was also demonstrated on page 35 of his volume Duels of the Mind, where he stated that Steinitz published a book called Modern Chess Theory. No such work exists."

That correction by Edward Winter is also online in his "Chess Jottings" article (https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/ext ... ml#Abysmal).

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JustinHorton
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Re: Nice 74

Post by JustinHorton » Tue May 11, 2021 9:27 am

Tim Harding wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:59 pm
I am not in the habit of reading Ray's Articles but a couple of weeks ago he emailed me out of the blue. He indicated he had given an (unsolicited) plug for my Steinitz in London book and invited me to give him plenty of stars on the site.
Ha ha this is extremely Ray
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Nice 74

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue May 11, 2021 7:09 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 9:46 am
That reminds me, I've never got round to researching Becoming A Grandmaster, which I've had suggested to me is an early example of recycling.
It reads that way. Not that I didn’t enjoy the book but I got the strong feeling while reading it that it was a collection of stuff waiting for a home rather than a book written from scratch. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find bits had previously published elsewhere

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John Clarke
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Re: Nice 74

Post by John Clarke » Tue May 11, 2021 11:10 pm

I once flicked through a copy of Becoming A Grandmaster (couldn't do more: it was in a library where I wasn't a registered borrower; never come across another since). Felt vaguely irritated that there was no account of RDK's early, pre-international career, which for my money would have been at least as interesting as what came after. (I have the same view of many other autobiographies - the best bits are usually the struggles to get established in the subject's chosen field. Once through that, they too often degenerate into a series of superficialities: "I met so-and-so; we did this and that", etc.)

If the other posters here are right about the recycling, that would partly explain why this important information is missing - lack of time or inclination to write it from scratch.
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Nice 74

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue May 11, 2021 11:26 pm

John Clarke wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 11:10 pm
... lack of time ....
Iirc there’s a comment in the back cover blurb that BaG was the first book by an English GM. It felt to me - Reading it some 35-40 years after the fact - that there had been a bit of a rush to get it out ASAP after the Olympiad to capitalise on this.

True or otherwise that’s how it came across.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Nice 74

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 12, 2021 12:05 am

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 11:26 pm
Iirc there’s a comment in the back cover blurb that BaG was the first book by an English GM.
Part of the prize for being the first GM had been a Batsford book contract. Tony Miles would have been awarded that, but perhaps there was a race to be first to print.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Nice 74

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Wed May 12, 2021 6:28 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 12:05 am
Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 11:26 pm
Iirc there’s a comment in the back cover blurb that BaG was the first book by an English GM.
Part of the prize for being the first GM had been a Batsford book contract. Tony Miles would have been awarded that, but perhaps there was a race to be first to priint.
I didn’t know that. Maybe Miles just wasn’t interested so RDK got it instead

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JustinHorton
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Re: Nice 74

Post by JustinHorton » Wed May 12, 2021 9:16 am

Ah yes, I forgot that at least one example from Becoming A Grandmaster has previously been found, which is that the much-repeated notes from Penrose-Keene, Blackpool 1971 originally appeared in the British Chess Magazine for October of that year. I wonder if the same is true of the notes for Ludgate-Keene from the same tournament.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Nice 74

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 12, 2021 10:35 am

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 6:28 am
Maybe Miles just wasn’t interested so RDK got it instead
I seem to recall there was a book written in conjunction with German player and author Rudolf Teschner. It was a puzzle book with a title of or similar to "It's your move".

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Its-Your-Move- ... 0679130489

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