42 Years Ago

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Alex Holowczak
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Re: 42 Years Ago

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:26 pm

Mike Truran wrote: Mais ou sont les neiges d'antan? (Alex, please feel free to leap into action - no googling permitted).
But where are the snows of ... something.

Memories of GCSE Languages are flooding back. "sont" is from avoir. Neiges was from weather. "antan" is a noun I don't think I ever learnt.

I never liked German, too many words for "the" and "a". In the end, I just guessed "ein" and "der", they seemed to have a higher probability of being correct than others... Polish doesn't seem to have this problem though; my Polish friend doesn't understand the difference between "a" and "the", so doesn't use either. Good job he doesn't have to study German!

Simon Brown
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Re: 42 Years Ago

Post by Simon Brown » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:40 pm

Bit unfair of Mike to quote ancient French - the quote comes from the 13th century I think - but it means "olden days".

Degree 1, GCSE 0.

Mike, my other language was Spanish

Andrew Farthing
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Re: 42 Years Ago

Post by Andrew Farthing » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:43 pm

The line is a refrain from the most famous poem in Francois Villon's "Testament". The standard English translation is, "Where are the snows of yesteryear?"

Mike Truran
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Re: 42 Years Ago

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:00 pm

Spot on Andrew. A lament for the passing of time and the irrecoverability of the past.

Richard Thursby
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Re: 42 Years Ago

Post by Richard Thursby » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:43 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote: Memories of GCSE Languages are flooding back. "sont" is from avoir. Neiges was from weather. "antan" is a noun I don't think I ever learnt.

I never liked German, too many words for "the" and "a". In the end, I just guessed "ein" and "der", they seemed to have a higher probability of being correct than others... Polish doesn't seem to have this problem though; my Polish friend doesn't understand the difference between "a" and "the", so doesn't use either. Good job he doesn't have to study German!
sont is the present tense third person plural of être, to be, not avoir, to have. The reason why Polish doesn't have the problem is that, like Russian and Latin, it has no articles. Given this, I find it amazing that French ever became popular to learn in Russia. Your Polish friend is grappling with a totally alien language concept, much like native English speakers trying to learn cases.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: 42 Years Ago

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:37 am

Of course, etre... I don't know why I put avoir.

I tried to explain to him the difference between "a" and "the", but found it harder to explain than I first thought it would be.

Paul McKeown
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Re: 42 Years Ago

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:30 am

Andrew Farthing wrote:The line is a refrain from the most famous poem in Francois Villon's "Testament". The standard English translation is, "Where are the snows of yesteryear?"
Bulat Okudzhava composed and sang Молитва Франсуа Вийона ("The prayer of François Villon") in his inimitable, haunting style; I have been a fan of Okudzhava for years. The word "yesteryear" was coined by Rossetti for this particular translation. The line has been used and abused throughout literature in just about every conceivable language and genre, from Catch 22 to Lady Chatterley's Lover. I think the format is more generally known as ubi sunt, reflecting the ancient roots of this nostalgic sense of transience.

Any further queries related to François Villon might best be referred to Tim Chesters of Staines Chess Club, though, as he is a lecturer in medieval French at Royal Holloway. He must know what he is talking about, as every time I ask him to play for the club, he can't, giving instead the feeble excuse that he has to give some lecture in America or somewhere! :wink:

Mike Truran
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Re: 42 Years Ago

Post by Mike Truran » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:39 am

Ubi sunt qui ante nos fuerunt......

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John Saunders
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Re: 42 Years Ago

Post by John Saunders » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:40 am

Nostalgia's not what it was, though, is it?

It's shame that AE Housman was not a chessplayer or we might have had...

Into my heart an air that kills
From yon far chessboard blows.
What are those blue remembered thrills,
What ranks, what files are those?

That is the land of lost content
I see it shining plain,
The happy chessboards where I went,
And cannot come again.

(apologies in advance to Simon if I've done anything outrageous to spondees, trochees, dactyls, etc)
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