ECF Membership Reform

[Roger de Coverly]

It might, but FIDE rating most weekend congresses wouldn't do much to help.

I think in practice that FIDE rating of at least the Open section of weekend congresses that have four hour sessions has already happened or will be for the first time in 2023-24. There's also a proliferation of under 2400 rated tournaments with time controls faster than four hours.

Until FIDE's Sonas revaluation goes through, the more Congresses you play, the more points you are liable to lose.

[Mick Norris]

Yes, it was noticable yesterday evening how many players eligible for the Major chose to play in the FIDE open

We had to set up another room for today as the room was a bit cramped

[Ian Jamieson]

The idea is that some people do not enter FIDE rated events because of the additional cost of Gold ECF membership.

Maybe the ECF should put some of any grant it gets from the government towards removing or at least subsidising this?

Otherwise FIDE rating costs the ECF money (admittedly not much) and is one of the reasons given why ENG registered players have to be ECF Gold members to play FIDE rated games (there is also the spurious requirement of having to be a member of a national federation but this has been demonstrated not to mean what ECF pig-headedly insist it means.) Given this why should Bronze or Silver players subsidise any reduction in Gold membership?

[Mike Gunn]

As I suggested above you could use the government windfall money to subsidise existing Bronze and Silver members to play FIDE rated games (abolishing Gold membership at the same time). Incidentally I think it costs the ECF £1.50 per player to rate a Swiss tournament or annual league (but someone may know better than me what the cost is).

[Ian Thompson]

Otherwise FIDE rating costs the ECF money (admittedly not much) and is one of the reasons given why ENG registered players have to be ECF Gold members to play FIDE rated games.... Given this why should Bronze or Silver players subsidise any reduction in Gold membership?

The ECF charge event organisers for FIDE rating tournaments, at the rate of £1 per player, but waive that charge for Gold and Platinum members for swiss events, team events and APAs with a low average rating.

Gold membership costs £12 more than Silver membership. Unless a player plays more than 12 FIDE rated tournaments per annum in England, which will be a small number of players, it's currently Gold members who are subsidising the cost of Bronze and Silver membership. Why should that continue?

[Ian Jamieson]

Otherwise FIDE rating costs the ECF money (admittedly not much) and is one of the reasons given why ENG registered players have to be ECF Gold members to play FIDE rated games.... Given this why should Bronze or Silver players subsidise any reduction in Gold membership?

The ECF charge event organisers for FIDE rating tournaments, at the rate of £1 per player, but waive that charge for Gold and Platinum members for swiss events, team events and APAs with a low average rating.

Gold membership costs £12 more than Silver membership. Unless a player plays more than 12 FIDE rated tournaments per annum in England, which will be a small number of players, it's currently Gold members who are subsidising the cost of Bronze and Silver membership. Why should that continue?

My understanding is FIDE charge ECF although I don’t know how much off the top of my head so you need to take that into account as well.

As Angus French has posted the cost of Bronze, Silver and Gold used to correlate roughly to the average number of games played by the various categories although he didn’t have up to date data.

Maybe ECF should scrap Bronze, Silver and Gold and go back to Game fee?

If nothing else this thread is a good example of why nothing will probably be done because there is no agreement on what should be done.

[Ian Thompson]

The ECF charge event organisers for FIDE rating tournaments, at the rate of £1 per player, but waive that charge for Gold and Platinum members for swiss events, team events and APAs with a low average rating.

My understanding is FIDE charge ECF although I don’t know how much off the top of my head so you need to take that into account as well.

I know they do, at €1 per player in swiss events, team events and APAs with a low average rating. It's not as well. There is nothing else. The ECF are profiting by charging Gold members £12 per annum to have their games played in England FIDE rated whilst only incurring costs of €1 per player per event.

[Angus French]

The ECF charge event organisers for FIDE rating tournaments, at the rate of £1 per player, but waive that charge for Gold and Platinum members for swiss events, team events and APAs with a low average rating.

My understanding is FIDE charge ECF although I don’t know how much off the top of my head so you need to take that into account as well.

I know they do, at €1 per player in swiss events, team events and APAs with a low average rating. It's not as well. There is nothing else. The ECF are profiting by charging Gold members £12 per annum to have their games played in England FIDE rated whilst only incurring costs of €1 per player per event.

But you might also take into account the average number of rated games played by Gold members vs. the same for other categories.

[Angus French]

Is there evidence that this is holding back participation?

The Summer Tournament which I organise, and in which you have played, should be FIDE rated. However, its original aim was to provide chess for our league players, who would baulk at effectively doubling their entry fee by upgrading to Gold. Some have even complained about having to go Silver just to play in their one annual tournament.

We could easily replace these recalcitrants with regular Congress players, but we don't want to.

Yes, I've played in the Pimlico Summer Tournament several times, the last being about five years ago. I don't recall being consulted on whether the tournament should be FIDE-rated nor do I recall anyone mentioning the possibility - though maybe this has happened more recently when I've not been a member of Pimlico CC.

Would the entry fee be doubled for non-Gold+ members? The difference in cost between Silver (£27) and Gold (£39) membership is currently £12. I don't know what the charge to play in the PST was this year but I see last year it was £25 or £22.50 for early entry.

In this year's open section I make it that 24 players of 32 are either Gold+ ECF members or lower-category members registered with a non-ENG national federation. For the major section, I make it the numbers are 30/44. So I wonder if, in future, consideration might be given to making both sections FIDE-rated - and maybe adding a non-FIDE-rated section if demand is sufficient?

[Ian Thompson]

My understanding is FIDE charge ECF although I don’t know how much off the top of my head so you need to take that into account as well.

I know they do, at €1 per player in swiss events, team events and APAs with a low average rating. It's not as well. There is nothing else. The ECF are profiting by charging Gold members £12 per annum to have their games played in England FIDE rated whilst only incurring costs of €1 per player per event.

But you might also take into account the average number of rated games played by Gold members vs. the same for other categories.

Why would I do that when we've moved away from a "pay per game" charge to a per head charge and there are no rights, or limitations, on the number of games that can be played for any membership category.

[NickFaulks]

So I wonder if, in future, consideration might be given to making both sections FIDE-rated

Under current rules, it won't. It is known with certainty that a number of loyal and long standing members would be unhappy, which is sufficient to rule out the idea. I expect that a majority of the players ( including me ) would quite like the event to be FIDE rated, but this is not a majority decision.

[Martin Crichton]

I just renewed my membership...downgraded it from Silver to Bronze.

[Paul Dupré]

Personally, I think we should have in introductory level for new players to OTB chess. Say £5 or £10, with 3 months free chess, before screwing them for full membership and club membership etc.

This is because I think there is so much data missing from the grading database, and this would be an ideal opportunity to get First Name, Last Name, middle initials, DOB, gender country flag for a small initial cost. Whereby they are NOT allowed to play until they are registered. For that they get an ECF lifetime membership number and ECF grading reference. ID should be provided to prove who they are...

[Ian Thompson]

The Board has published a paper on membership options to vote on at the AGM and asked for opinions in a member survey.

Gmail users might want to check their Spam folder for the ECF's e-mail about this as mine was marked as spam by Gmail.

Current Bronze members unhappy with possible increases in their costs might like to note that the board considers they're currently paying £8 per annum less than their fare share of the ECF's costs, but, nevertheless, proposes that Bronze membership should continue with SIlver/Gold members paying £7 more per annum to compensate for the lower Bronze membership fee under the Board's preferred option.

[Ian Jamieson]

The Board has published a paper on membership options to vote on at the AGM and asked for opinions in a member survey.

Gmail users might want to check their Spam folder for the ECF's e-mail about this as mine was marked as spam by Gmail.

Current Bronze members unhappy with possible increases in their costs might like to note that the board considers they're currently paying £8 per annum less than their fare share of the ECF's costs, but, nevertheless, proposes that Bronze membership should continue with SIlver/Gold members paying £7 more per annum to compensate for the lower Bronze membership fee under the Board's preferred option.

I haven’t had a chance to read the paper yet but basically ECF are in a position to charge what they want. I already play less under Bronze / Silver / Gold than I played under game fee (although not just because of this) and if the board increases the cost for Bronze members, which I note they don’t appear to be proposing, I may just stop playing OTB entirely - there are plenty of online sites - or just play in other countries.