ECF Rolling Membership

[Ian Thompson]

It's no longer necessarily true that new players are pure novices. They may well have played online extensively, Don't chess clubs have a bad enough reputation for hostility to newcomers without demanding an annual membership fee of the national body as a condition of playing a first "proper" game?

That would be the club's choice to do that. If it's the player's first "proper" game then there would be no game fee liability until they'd played 4 games.

[Roger de Coverly]

That would be the club's choice to do that. If it's the player's first "proper" game then there would be no game fee liability until they'd played 4 games.

That's only because the ECF don't follow the policy recommended by John Upham.

[Paul Habershon]

I always expected pure novices walking in off the street not to expect to be playing a match straight away the same night;

It's no longer necessarily true that new players are pure novices. They may well have played online extensively, Don't chess clubs have a bad enough reputation for hostility to newcomers without demanding an annual membership fee of the national body as a condition of playing a first "proper" game?

In general I have found that newcomers to our chess club expect to pay the club annual subscription immediately, even though we offer a couple of weeks free trial. Chess is still much cheaper than many other activities, especially as boards, sets, clocks last for many years and the players need very little kit of their own. Indeed some will even scrounge a pen or pencil at the club. As for Bronze membership, it's incredibly cheap and it is scarcely hostile to require it before someone plays a graded game. It's approximately the equivalent of a quarter of a tank of petrol spread over a whole year.

Actually we didn't check on ECF membership last season and quite rightly received an invoice.We are now dealing with the problem of five league team members who either didn't bother to join the ECF or didn't know they had to. I applaud the simplicity of the table tennis policy mentioned earlier.

[Paul Cooksey]

I intended this as a "what are the rules" thread, rather than a "what should the rules be" thread. But I think a "game fee is not due for any game played by a member of required category" baseline rule would be a significant simplification for everyone.

Still Council approved rolling membership on a "just trust us" argument from the Board. So I think leagues just have to work out how to live with it now,

[John Upham]

I intended this as a "what are the rules" thread, rather than a "what should the rules be" thread. But I think a "game fee is not due for any game played by a member of required category" baseline rule would be a significant simplification for everyone.

Still Council approved rolling membership on a "just trust us" argument from the Board. So I think leagues just have to work out how to live with it now,

Is the principal problem from this new approach likely to be caused by clubs tolerating, encouraging or ignoring clubs members playing in rated matches who are not ECF members?

Are there other perceived problems?

[NickFaulks]

I'd suggest the possibility of offence being taken was a load of imagined baloney.

I don't think the suggestion was that they would take offence, rather that they just won't do it. I am not commenting on whether that is true, although I do know for sure that some players will refuse to upgrade to Gold for a few games that happen to be FIDE rated.

[Roger de Coverly]

Is the principal problem from this new approach likely to be caused by clubs tolerating, encouraging or ignoring clubs members playing in rated matches who are not ECF members?

The problem is caused by people who are both members and non-members at the same time.

Going back to Paul's original example, someone who joins as a Gold or Silver member in January 2023 is a member for Congresses and presumably 4NCL played between September 2023 and December 2023, but not for league and club play in that same period,

[John Upham]

Is the principal problem from this new approach likely to be caused by clubs tolerating, encouraging or ignoring clubs members playing in rated matches who are not ECF members?

The problem is caused by people who are both members and non-members at the same time.

Going back to Paul's original example, someone who joins as a Gold or Silver member in January 2023 is a member for Congresses and presumably 4NCL played between September 2023 and December 2023, but not for league and club play in that same period,

OK, I hadn't appreciated that Roger. Has this issue been picked up by the Director of Membership?

[Paul Cooksey]

Has this issue been picked up by the Director of Membership?

It is his initiative. He justified it in several ways, including saying that rolling membership benefits members and chess organisations should be willing to serve the members they represent. I felt that was bit cheeky, but he did have strong support from Council

[Roger de Coverly]

[t is his initiative. He justified it in several ways, including saying that rolling membership benefits members and chess organisations should be willing to serve the members they represent.

If there are leagues or clubs that follow the table tennis example of requiring ECF membership as a condition of participation, they will hit a Schroedinger's cat problem. They won't know whether a rolling membership person is a member until a future event, namely the decision to renew.

[John Upham]

[t is his initiative. He justified it in several ways, including saying that rolling membership benefits members and chess organisations should be willing to serve the members they represent.

If there are leagues or clubs that follow the table tennis example of requiring ECF membership as a condition of participation, they will hit a Schroedinger's cat problem. They won't know whether a rolling membership person is a member until a future event, namely the decision to renew.

What stops "them" consulting the ECF Member Finder to discover membership status?

[Dragoljub Sudar]

The ratings database shows ECF members expiry dates.

The issue is not whether someone is a member of the ECF (as previously everyone's membership expired on the same date). The issue now is WHEN an ECF member's membership expires as being an ECF member in September is virtually meaningless.

[Roger de Coverly]

The issue is not whether someone is a member of the ECF (as previously everyone's membership expired on the same date). The issue now is WHEN an ECF member's membership expires as being an ECF member in September is virtually meaningless.

Seemingly now everyone who is a Silver or Gold member has two expiry dates, one for club and league play and the other for Congresses and the 4NCL. For existing members these will coincide on 31st August. What will happen with those Silver and Gold members who are dilatory in renewing, perhaps waiting until they neeed membership to enter a Congress?

[Dragoljub Sudar]

In practical terms, for that individual, they simply buy their ECF membership in the month of that congress and then renew in that month in future years, so for them it's no big deal. I assume they will get a renewal email which hopefully will emphasise the fact that they must renew in order to cover the league games they have already played that season.

The only real inconvenience is to club officials who try to ensure that the players are all eligible to play league chess without costing the club money.

[J T Melsom]

I always expected pure novices walking in off the street not to expect to be playing a match straight away the same night;

It's no longer necessarily true that new players are pure novices. They may well have played online extensively, Don't chess clubs have a bad enough reputation for hostility to newcomers without demanding an annual membership fee of the national body as a condition of playing a first "proper" game?

Is the bit in bold actually true? I can understand some clubs might be unsure how best to welcome new players but hostility? You may be doing a disservice to a great many chess club officials with this remark.