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Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:59 pm
by Paul Cooksey
The details of the motions are in the Agenda
https://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-cont ... Agenda.pdf. Tim expands in a background paper;
https://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-cont ... lution.pdf
If I edit the flowery language they are:
1. The ECF should push for the removal of Dvorkovich as FIDE President
2. The ECF should directly support the Ukraine people though the Ukraine chess federation.
Honestly when I first read the second one I thought I must have misunderstood it. But reading the notes, and looking at Tim's comments on unmoderated social media, apparently not. My opinion is that the ECF is not capable of organising emergency relief in a way that will materially impact the lives of people in Ukraine.
I can only apologise to Mike Truran if he sees this as just another example of people bashing the long suffering volunteers on the ECF Board. But there you go, in my view much better to give some money to the Red Cross and to support the sponsored events people have been doing.
The first motion a bit more difficult to me to decide on. I suppose an easy cop out is to vote against it and say I have confidence in the FIDE rep. But if Dvorkovich has been sanctioned, I might vote for it, even though I respect him as personally very competent. I could not see anything definitive quickly on google. Does anyone know?
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:07 pm
by Christopher Kreuzer
Paul Cooksey wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:59 pm
The details of the motions are in the Agenda
https://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-cont ... Agenda.pdf. Tim expands in a background paper;
https://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-cont ... lution.pdf
If I edit the flowery language they are:
1. The ECF should push for the removal of Dvorkovich as FIDE President
2. The ECF should directly support the Ukraine people though the Ukraine chess federation.
Honestly when I first read the second one I thought I must have misunderstood it. But reading the notes, and looking at Tim's comments on unmoderated social media, apparently not. My opinion is that the ECF is not capable of organising emergency relief in a way that will materially impact the lives of people in Ukraine.
I can only apologies to Mike Truran if he sees this as just another example of people bashing the long suffering volunteers on the ECF Board. But there you go, in my view much better to give some money to the Red Cross and to support the sponsored events people have been doing.
The first motion a bit more difficult to me to decide on. I suppose an easy cop out is to vote against it and say I have confidence in the FIDE rep. But if Dvorkovich has been sanctioned, I might vote for it, even though I respect him as personally very competent. I could not see anything definitive quickly on google. Does anyone know?
It is from over a week ago, but this may be relevant:
https://en.chessbase.com/post/anand-sup ... e-election
"Anand set to support Dvorkovich’s reelection bid" (1 April 2022).
(I assume Chessbase don't do April Fools any more?)
As I said in another thread, Malcolm Pein opines on Dvorkovich in his April 2022 CHESS editorial.
I have mislaid my copy. Is anyone able to copy out here a summary of what Malcolm said? (If that would be appropriate for this thread.)
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:59 pm
by NickFaulks
Council further calls for an extraordinary FIDE Congress to be urgently convened to elect a new FIDE
President.
This wording makes no sense.
1. The next GA and election will take place in early August, less than four months away.
2. If enough federations call for an Extraordinary GA ( obviously not a FIDE Congress, which is something else entirely ), this must be held within four months. Therefore
3. A more rational proposal would would be to request ( no doubt some people would prefer
demand, but it makes no difference ) that AD step down with immediate effect. If he acceded, then
4. His place would be taken, until the next election, by the Deputy President - unless Council is saying that Bachar Kouatly would also be unacceptable.
By the way, under the new Charter a vote of no confidence requires a two thirds majority, which certainly would not be achieved. I find this provision quite surprising.
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:54 pm
by Roger Lancaster
As I've pointed out elsewhere on this forum, statements such as " ... Council believes that Mr. Dvorkovich’s longstanding involvement in Putin’s government as Deputy Prime Minister from 2012-18 ..." are misleading. As Tim surely knows, Arkady Dvorkovich occupied a post in Dmitry Medvedev's Cabinet comparable to that currently occupied, in the UK government, by Kwasi Kwarteng. It's also far from clear, from the remarks I have seen attributed to him, that he is enthusiastic about the invasion of Ukraine.
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:12 pm
by JustinHorton
Tim Wall worked for Russia Today, the Russian government's propaganda station, rather more recently than Arkady Dvorkovich was a member of the Russian government.
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:49 pm
by Gerard Killoran
If the ECF considers support for an illegal invasion of a sovereign country as grounds for disqualification from elected office, what about the editor of a newspaper that cheer-led for such an invasion and published articles such as this?
How I long for the bombs to start falling
By Mark Steyn 08 March 2003
Is there a columnar equivalent of Viagra? I mean, I started writing about impending war with Iraq in late September 2001 and, after 18 months, I'm beginning to flag. I don't think I've had a new thought on Iraq in months. I agree with what I said about toppling Saddam in The Sunday Telegraph way back on September 27, 2001. Don't bother looking it up. I've said the same words in a slightly different order a gazillion times since and, even taking the President at his word that this is Saddam's last last chance, that still gives me three weeks or so to say it another half-dozen times.
This is the Mesopotamian desert of punditry. I've been parched of fresh opinion for months, and the damn mirage of war shimmering on the horizon never gets any nearer.
The only consolation is that the anti-war crowd is having an even harder time keeping it up than I am.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/per ... lling.html
The 8th of March 2003 happened to be a Sunday.
Now here's a quiz. Who was editor of the Sunday Telegraph responsible for publishing such filth, and what is his connection to the ECF?
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:07 pm
by Roger Lancaster
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:12 pm
Tim Wall worked for Russia Today, the Russian government's propaganda station, rather more recently than Arkady Dvorkovich was a member of the Russian government.
Well, yes, Justin, and I've challenged Tim on this in the past so I'm certainly no apologist for him but, since Tim subsequently withdrew from this forum and so can't or won't answer personally, his response essentially was that he (and indeed many of his colleagues working for RT) was/were politically opposed to Putin. Whether this is true or not I find impossible to judge although I'll concede that there are plenty of people worldwide working for employers despite personally disagreeing with some or all of the actions/policies of those employers. By that token, it's inevitable that there will be some well-placed persons in Russia who disagree with its actions in Ukraine. Whether Dvorkovich is such a person is something else I find impossible to judge.
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:26 pm
by Chris Goodall
Tim changed his mind about Putin, which is fine. He seems to have memory-holed the piece he wrote for the Valdai Club equating Russia's expansionism with NATO's invasionism, which, I don't blame him.
This is a bad time to be policing anyone's anti-Putin credentials. If you supported Putin yesterday and don't support him today, hey, you made a good decision! Among people of similar politics to Tim, there are still plenty of tank enthusiasts who have not gotten even that far.
(I did smile at the revelation that the war in Ukraine was originally proposed by the Durham County Chess Association!
)
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2022 11:41 pm
by John Upham
Gerard Killoran wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:49 pm
Now here's a quiz. Who was editor of the Sunday Telegraph responsible for publishing such filth, and what is his connection to the ECF?
Dominic Lawson (the third editor) was "ousted" in June 2005 and was replaced by Sarah Sands (the fourth editor).
What is the prize?
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:13 am
by Matt Mackenzie
Chris Goodall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:26 pm
Tim changed his mind about Putin, which is fine. He seems to have memory-holed the piece he wrote for the Valdai Club equating Russia's expansionism with NATO's invasionism, which, I don't blame him.
This is a bad time to be policing anyone's anti-Putin credentials.
If you supported Putin yesterday and don't support him today, hey, you made a good decision! Among people of similar politics to Tim, there are still plenty of tank enthusiasts who have not gotten even that far.
(I did smile at the revelation that the war in Ukraine was originally proposed by the Durham County Chess Association!
)
Well that's a pretty good description of our PM, so.....
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:50 am
by Gerard Killoran
John Upham wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 11:41 pm
Gerard Killoran wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:49 pm
Now here's a quiz. Who was editor of the Sunday Telegraph responsible for publishing such filth, and what is his connection to the ECF?
Dominic Lawson (the third editor) was "ousted" in June 2005 and was replaced by Sarah Sands (the fourth editor).
What is the prize?
There is no prize, always read the terms and conditions.
Surely having Dominic Lawson as our ECF President is reward enough?
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:24 pm
by Paul Heaton
Dvorkovich fleeing to Dubai to escape arrest in Russia
https://twitter.com/anders_aslund/statu ... 88896?s=21
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:29 pm
by NickFaulks
Paul Heaton wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:24 pm
Dvorkovich fleeing to Dubai to escape arrest in Russia
He was in London last week, didn't sound very concerned.
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:38 pm
by Christopher Kreuzer
NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:29 pm
Paul Heaton wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:24 pm
Dvorkovich fleeing to Dubai to escape arrest in Russia
He was in London last week, didn't sound very concerned.
Nick, seriously, if you were in Dvorkovich's position, would you be that blasé? It may be that his relatively prominent position as the head of an international organisation might actually be helping him here. But things are decidedly turbulent in certain Russian circles right now. I am trying to remember the name of that relatively prominent Chinese bureaucrat or businessman (held a prominent position in Western organisations) who was (I think) arrested when he displeased the Chinese government, but the name escapes me right now.
Re: Tim Wall's Ukraine Resolutions
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:08 pm
by JustinHorton
On the other hand, are there any actual news reports of this very prominent individual fleeing to Dubai
