Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 10364
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:06 pm

John Upham wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:31 am
JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:08 am
John Upham wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:01 am
Is it only MBP who has sidekicks
It's been a prominent feature of hs operation for some years, John, hard to see anything comparable elsewhere
What are the defining characteristics of sidekicks?

You are asserting that MCT does not also have any of them at all?
Perhaps you can identify for us anybody who you think behaves in a similar way to Chris Fegan or Tim Wall and has a similar professional relationship to Mike Truran as those two do to Malcolm Pein. If you can't then maybe don't waste our time further.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

User avatar
John Upham
Posts: 7179
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by John Upham » Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:29 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:06 pm
John Upham wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:31 am
JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:08 am


It's been a prominent feature of hs operation for some years, John, hard to see anything comparable elsewhere
What are the defining characteristics of sidekicks?

You are asserting that MCT does not also have any of them at all?
Perhaps you can identify for us anybody who you think behaves in a similar way to Chris Fegan or Tim Wall and has a similar professional relationship to Mike Truran as those two do to Malcolm Pein. If you can't then maybe don't waste our time further.
OK, some detail is emerging.

I take it you are asserting that both TPW and CF are "sidekicks" rather than the somewhat less disparaging "supporter" as used by JTM?

Since I would not describe any serving ECF officials as "sidekicks" I fear I cannot help you further.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Andrew Zigmond
Posts: 2073
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Harrogate

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:36 pm

John Upham wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:29 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:06 pm
John Upham wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:31 am


What are the defining characteristics of sidekicks?

You are asserting that MCT does not also have any of them at all?
Perhaps you can identify for us anybody who you think behaves in a similar way to Chris Fegan or Tim Wall and has a similar professional relationship to Mike Truran as those two do to Malcolm Pein. If you can't then maybe don't waste our time further.
OK, some detail is emerging.

I take it you are asserting that both TPW and CF are "sidekicks" rather than the somewhat less disparaging "supporter" as used by JTM?

Since I would not describe any serving ECF officials as "sidekicks" I fear I cannot help you further.
There is a difference between supporters and known associates.

TPW and CF have made personal attacks against Mike Truran, together with a succession of complaints that seem designed to undermine him (although none have yet been upheld).

Please could you point to where Mike's association/ sidekicks/ colleagues have done similar.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Alan Kennedy
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:33 am

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by Alan Kennedy » Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:49 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:36 pm

There is a difference between supporters and known associates.

TPW and CF have made personal attacks against Mike Truran, together with a succession of complaints that seem designed to undermine him (although none have yet been upheld).

Please could you point to where Mike's association/ sidekicks/ colleagues have done similar.
Perhaps it could be helpful to the debate if Malcolm Pein (MP) was to dis-associate himself from the personal attacks and succession of unsubstantiated complaints and insults made against Mike Truran. Otherwise CSC is presumably vicariously liable for particularly Chris Fegan's comments.

Nick Ivell
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by Nick Ivell » Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:41 pm

And answer came there none.

J T Melsom
Posts: 1294
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by J T Melsom » Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:24 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:41 pm
And answer came there none.
Sadly that sums up the election for me. Although Matthew Read might bash people over the head :wink: :|

John Foley
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:58 am
Location: Kingston-upon-Thames

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by John Foley » Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:50 am

Alan Kennedy wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:49 pm
Otherwise CSC is presumably vicariously liable for particularly Chris Fegan's comments.
A far-fetched application of the legal concept. The field of action is political rather than legal: people have a right to be critical (until free speech is finally extinguished). Let the arguments on all sides be presented (even if not always welcome) and the people (through the prism of Council) will decide. Let's keep the temperature down.

J T Melsom
Posts: 1294
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:54 am

John Foley wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:50 am
Alan Kennedy wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:49 pm
Otherwise CSC is presumably vicariously liable for particularly Chris Fegan's comments.
A far-fetched application of the legal concept. The field of action is political rather than legal: people have a right to be critical (until free speech is finally extinguished). Let the arguments on all sides be presented (even if not always welcome) and the people (through the prism of Council) will decide. Let's keep the temperature down.
Well yes, but which side is generating most of the heat?

Ian Thompson
Posts: 3551
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by Ian Thompson » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:47 am

John Foley wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:50 am
The field of action is political rather than legal: people have a right to be critical (until free speech is finally extinguished).
But also an obligation to be truthful and not to mislead. Selectively disclosing confidential information to give a misleading impression of candidates is not acceptable. It should, at least, make it easy to decide whether people who do this are suitable people to hold roles in the ECF.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21301
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:22 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:47 am
But also an obligation to be truthful and not to mislead.
It now seems accepted that the PIF money, even if spent, should be routed via Chess Trust. Seemingly the PIF Trustees can put conditions on what is done with the money before passing it on. Whilst in the PIF, the rules said that only the investment earnings can be spent, unless the BCF Council votes otherwise. There are precedents, I seem to recall PIF money being spent on past revamps to the grading system and for that matter loans to the ECF following the loss of the DCMS grant.

One of the few things where the Chess Trust wouldn't be allowed to spend money would be the open International team, there being a prohibition on spending charity money on professionals. The CSC seemed to get away with the London Chess Classic. I think there's an exception for events designed to promote the charity.

In retrospect, the ECF was allowed to make an error in redrafting John Robinson's will to direct the assets to a charity rather than the BCF PIF or an ECF PIF. There should have been a sunset clause, even if a modest one, requiring the Trustees to supplement grants by slowly running down the original capital.
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nick Burrows
Posts: 1705
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by Nick Burrows » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:41 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:22 pm
One of the few things where the Chess Trust wouldn't be allowed to spend money would be the open International team,
Could there be some creative accounting, where the Chess Trust money is spent elsewhere freeing extra ECF funds spent on the International teams?
Thereby in effect, spending it on International teams.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21301
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:45 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:41 pm
Could there be some creative accounting, where the Chess Trust money is spent elsewhere freeing extra ECF funds spent on the International teams?
That's quite possible. One problem may be that one of the other bigger items of expenditure is the (professional) office. Subsidies to Women's chess would seem a plausible recipient of funding.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 10364
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:42 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:41 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:22 pm
One of the few things where the Chess Trust wouldn't be allowed to spend money would be the open International team,
Could there be some creative accounting, where the Chess Trust money is spent elsewhere freeing extra ECF funds spent on the International teams?
Thereby in effect, spending it on International teams.
Mmm, and if this had obviously occurred would there be any potential legalities
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Nick Ivell
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by Nick Ivell » Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:07 am

Can I perhaps clear up this linguistic quibble?

Truran has supporters, Pein has sidekicks.

Simples!

Jonathan Bryant
Posts: 3452
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Malcolm Pein's CEO manifesto

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:10 am

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:07 am
.... Pein has sidekicks.
Don't forget the fawning sycophants