That's an argument against ECF Council, not against Mike. Are you saying that you'd approve of Mike's decision in a world where ECF Council members, over whom he has no control, chose to consult more widely with their constituents?John Upham wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:58 amI feel it is unfortunate that the "most important people" are not the members of the ECF.
It is indeed a sorry state of the affairs that the "most important people" are a sub-set of the members of ECF Council many of whom have no interest in discussing with or consulting the large number of persons that they allegedly "represent".
As for this sub-set holding multiple votes....
Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
Quite, and very politely put too.Paul Cooksey wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:01 am....
Generally I thought:
....
Q3 - CSC and governance.
Disappointing answer. Leaving aside he misrepresents Mike's point slightly, dismissing the situation as similar to the 4NCL in the past seems inadequate to me. The situation with employees seems different. The situation bothers me less than it would if one of Malcolm's employees was CEO, since at least he would be the boss in both organisations. But still I think it deserves a serious answer
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On a number of recent threads - and don't worry, I won't repost this on all the others - the point has arisen that while Malcolm has an army of employees or associates with clear financial links to Malcolm, who are happy to act as attack dogs against Mike, then again there are two 4NCL directors on the ECF board, and at one stage there were three.
I am sure that no one on this forum really draws any equivalance between the two. Indeed, if anyone really thought that Mike had his own private army in the shape of Alex H and David Thomas, paid through 4NCL, they would look up the 4NCL accounts from Companies House. I expect that no one has done so, and because deep down everyone knows there would be nothing to find. Private army? Dad's army, more like. 4NCL directors receive a very small annual sum (with no extra expenses account) from which some of their expenses in travelling to 4NCL weekends may be defrayed; that is all. I expect that they make a small financial loss from being directors, not to mention their unpaid time. Mere members of the 4NCL (I and a couple of other captains) get nothing; I have occasionally travelled to Mike's house for an AGM and certainly paid my own way ...
As for those AGMs! I don't recall Alex showing any subservience to Mike! You would have to pretend that you had never met Alex to think that. Alex, like myself and the other members, can say what he likes because (a) dismissing us is not soley within Mike's power (b) we generally know what we are talking about and are thinking about the good of the organisaton (c) most importantly of all - Mike actually WANTS to hear sensible points of view from such people.
And I should think that Alex and Mike have certain differences on ECF business too. At any rate they would be thinking and speaking individuals and not part of a collective body within a body. Put it like this - Alex would hardly have written any version of Mike's manifesto, if that is a useful comparsion point.
Finally, now. I was dismayed, as many other forum members were, that Fenella Headlong withdrew her candidature for Womens' Director because she felt that the election between Aga and her was being portrayed as an extension of the battle between Malcolm and Mike. I never thought that Fenella was acting for Mike in any way at all, as subsequently confirmed. Who would even think that? They might say that womens' chess is important to them; and yet they have managed to destroy what would have been the first ever contested election between two strong female candidates. Are they ashamed of themselves? (all right - rhetorical question).
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
And we have to assume that Malcolm is also happy for them to do soJonathan Rogers wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:36 amMalcolm has an army of employees or associates with clear financial links to Malcolm, who are happy to act as attack dogs against Mike
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
This is not the first unpleasant election season in ECF/BCF history, but when the smoke has cleared I think it may be remembered above all for Fenella's withdrawal. A message has been sent that if anyone looks like defeating one of Malcolm's candidates at the ballot box, there are other ways of dealing with them.Jonathan Rogers wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:36 amFinally, now. I was dismayed, as many other forum members were, that Fenella Headlong withdrew her candidature for Womens' Director because she felt that the election between Aga and her was being portrayed as an extension of the battle between Malcolm and Mike. I never thought that Fenella was acting for Mike in any way at all, as subsequently confirmed. Who would even think that? They might say that womens' chess is important to them; and yet they have managed to destroy what would have been the first ever contested election between two strong female candidates. Are they ashamed of themselves? (all right - rhetorical question).
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
Not really, though. Only in Bob Clark's imagination. Most of the talk was about how we shouldn't see the election as a battle between Malcolm and Mike, despite it being quite apparent that Aga was getting votes for being Malcolm and Chris's candidate and Fenella was getting votes for being independent of Malcolm and Chris - which isn't the same as being "Mike's candidate". Ultimately Fenella not wanting a position for which she had a half-hearted mandate is understandable, but it means that Aga gets a position for which she has a quarter-hearted mandate.Jonathan Rogers wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:36 amFinally, now. I was dismayed, as many other forum members were, that Fenella Headlong withdrew her candidature for Womens' Director because she felt that the election between Aga and her was being portrayed as an extension of the battle between Malcolm and Mike.
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
I did, because I was curious to know if Malcolm Pein's statement that "4NCL is a for-profit private limited company" was incorrect, or just being used to justify a misleading comment on the status of the 4NCL compared to CSC.Jonathan Rogers wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:36 amif anyone really thought that Mike had his own private army in the shape of Alex H and David Thomas, paid through 4NCL, they would look up the 4NCL accounts from Companies House. I expect that no one has done so, and because deep down everyone knows there would be nothing to find.
I was surprised the 4NCL accounts don't contain an income and expenditure statement, but I'm not an accountant so I assume that's OK. There's nothing to tell us what payments were made to individuals for any reason. It does tell us the 4NCL has no employees and no spare cash.
The CSC accounts tell us that it has 7 employees, paid a total of about £226K (including pension payments), with the highest paid receiving between £60K and £70K (excluding pension payments) and the "key management personnel" receiving £81K. I assume Malcolm Pein and Chris Fegan are classed as key management personnel, and Aga Milewska is not.
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
I thought that like the ECF itself the 4NCL was set up as a Company limited by guarantee.Ian Thompson wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:25 pmI did, because I was curious to know if Malcolm Pein's statement that "4NCL is a for-profit private limited company" was incorrect, or just being used to justify a misleading comment on the status of the 4NCL compared to CSC.
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
It is, and you would think that Malcolm would know that. It is really quite startling that he might suggest any equivalence between 4NCL and his charity which, Ian tells us, pays a number of salaries north of £60,000.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:09 pmI thought that like the ECF itself the 4NCL was set up as a Company limited by guarantee.Ian Thompson wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:25 pmI did, because I was curious to know if Malcolm Pein's statement that "4NCL is a for-profit private limited company" was incorrect, or just being used to justify a misleading comment on the status of the 4NCL compared to CSC.
When 4NCL has a good year - sometimes it makes a loss, and when there is a surplus, it is very small compared with the CSC figures - it is either channelled back to support various loss-making 4NCL enterprises (e.g some 4NCL congresses) or saved for a rainy day - because one never knows when venues all round the country will suddenly double their prices, etc. No salaries, and no bonuses for good performances!
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
In other words, no one is beholden to Mike Truran.
It's not the way he operates.
It's not the way he operates.
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
There are more accusations on the Pein campaign page. Malcolm thinks it's good to see a democratic process going on in clubs and associations and asking if the 4NCL will do the same (two days after attacking the one direct members representative pledging to vote according and only according to the majority view of his constituents). There is also a complaint about the number of votes the 4NCL have and effectively asking if this is a fix.
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
The number of votes is proportional to the number of games played. The CSC London events in December would deliver a fair few for Malcolm.Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:29 pmThere is also a complaint about the number of votes the 4NCL have and effectively asking if this is a fix.
Are you able to quote a link?
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
Controller - Yorkshire League
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All views expressed entirely my own
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All views expressed entirely my own
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
Politics is a battle of ideas, or it is nothing.
Who is winning this battle? The Truran campaign, I would say, hands down.
Who is winning this battle? The Truran campaign, I would say, hands down.
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
This is starting to sound desperate. Weights of votes are decided according to formulae which are published, and the size of the 4NCL vote has, I should think (though I have never been a member of council) been comparably large for several years before Mike became CEO. And incidentally, the members of 4NCL were asked for their views in advance of this election.Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:29 pmThere are more accusations on the Pein campaign page. Malcolm thinks it's good to see a democratic process going on in clubs and associations and asking if the 4NCL will do the same (two days after attacking the one direct members representative pledging to vote according and only according to the majority view of his constituents). There is also a complaint about the number of votes the 4NCL have and effectively asking if this is a fix.
I have no doubt that Malcolm and his supporters would prefer OMOV. After all the vast majority of voters would likely only be getting their information from CHESS where any and all such nonsense could be thrown in with little challenge.
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Re: Putting the Record Straight: Answering John Reyes and Mike Truran
Which members?Jonathan Rogers wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:53 pmAnd incidentally, the members of 4NCL were asked for their views in advance of this election.