Nominations 2021

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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John Upham
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by John Upham » Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:29 pm

John Townsend wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:28 pm
This point about "elite level activity" made by J.T. Melsom, is a good one. In my opinion, resurgence of chess in Britain needs to be much more broadly based than the way it is envisaged by the ECF. In addition to club chess, resurgence should encompass more chess in pubs and cafés and, perhaps above all, more social chess, e.g. at home. Unfortunately, these objectives do not satisfy the ECF's desire to raise money and promote "elite level activity".
I agree very much with this.

" resurgence should encompass more chess in pubs and cafés "

You could add libraries also.

These objectives very much fit with the CSC prospectus.

The ECF follows very much a philosophy of do not organise anything when you can hope someone else will do it for you and that includes parents.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:19 pm

Although the English Chess Federation isn't actually supposed to be the CSC Federation, is it John?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Nick Ivell
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by Nick Ivell » Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:38 pm

Can I also suggest that all this stuff about an 'online explosion' is over-hyped.

I agree with GM Davies that most games played online have very little value.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:44 pm

Except to the people who play them, which may be the most important thing
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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John Upham
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by John Upham » Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:49 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:19 pm
Although the English Chess Federation isn't actually supposed to be the CSC Federation, is it John?
I'm not aware of the CSC Federation.

Does it boldly go where no one has been before?
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JustinHorton
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:51 pm

The hilarity never starts
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Mick Norris
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:03 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:10 pm
Mick Norris wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:43 pm

I've spoken today to a chess player who expressed the view that other than the grading system, what does the ECF do for us?
Has he ever asked
Yes

In other news, the MCF has a new ECF Delegate who will be familiar as a long standing Silver members rep
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Chris Goodall
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by Chris Goodall » Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:31 pm

This divide between the "promotional model" and the "enabling model" is just spin. Malcolm isn't talking about promoting the UKCC or the 4NCL or the London teams in the PRO Chess League on chess.com. His promotional model comes with the caveat "as long as it increases the amount of chess the ECF can tax". Promoting chess for the sake of promoting it, knowing that someone else is going to be "capturing" the "revenue stream", is too far outside the box. He's promoting chess for the sake of enabling elite chess.

Development Officers are a joke that has gone on too long. No-one except prospective D.O.s thinks we need D.O.s. Not even defeated candidates for the role of D.O. think we need D.O.s. If anyone hasn't read the D.O. job description, it's 9 pages of "working alongside" and "liaising with" and "supporting" the people doing the actual work. What work the D.O. is supposed to do alongside those people is never explained. Like football agents, they magically add value just by being cc'd into emails.

I refuse to pay a membership fee to an organisation that wants to spend it on Development Officers, and if any local leagues feel the same way then my offer to provide them with free 3-figure grades still stands.
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Roger Lancaster
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:32 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:31 pm
This divide between the "promotional model" and the "enabling model" is just spin. Malcolm isn't talking about promoting the UKCC or the 4NCL or the London teams in the PRO Chess League on chess.com. His promotional model comes with the caveat "as long as it increases the amount of chess the ECF can tax". Promoting chess for the sake of promoting it, knowing that someone else is going to be "capturing" the "revenue stream", is too far outside the box. He's promoting chess for the sake of enabling elite chess.

Development Officers are a joke that has gone on too long. No-one except prospective D.O.s thinks we need D.O.s. Not even defeated candidates for the role of D.O. think we need D.O.s. If anyone hasn't read the D.O. job description, it's 9 pages of "working alongside" and "liaising with" and "supporting" the people doing the actual work. What work the D.O. is supposed to do alongside those people is never explained. Like football agents, they magically add value just by being cc'd into emails.

I refuse to pay a membership fee to an organisation that wants to spend it on Development Officers, and if any local leagues feel the same way then my offer to provide them with free 3-figure grades still stands.
I see the "development officer" debate in similar terms to Chris. I'm not suggesting that development officers would be useless but, for those organisers who already have a fair idea of what they're doing, I rather think their help wouldn't amount to very much.

On the "promotional versus enabling" debate it's possible, in many fields of activity from national governments downward, to hold either of two views. One is what I'll describe here as a top-down approach, where everything is controlled and carried out by a central organisation, and the other a bottom-up approach where much is left to local organisations. In national terms, most people would probably opt for some form of hybrid model whereby a central body ran the armed forces and local bodies were responsible for bus timetables but this example leaves a lot of middle ground where either approach is possible.

When one talks of the ECF doing something, the reality is that it is individual members of the ECF who will actually be doing the work. And, unlike soldiers or bus-drivers, very many of those members will be unpaid. That means that, unlike soldiers or bus-drivers, there's no ready method whereby the ECF can compel them to do anything. So, if the ECF wants to take the lead in a particular area, it has either to command support among those prepared to do the actual - largely unpaid - work or else to be prepared, if and when volunteers don't wish to play ball, to pay people to do it. The reality is that, chess players being the contrary bunch they are, some people are bound to disagree with whatever it is the ECF wants them to do.

If I'm correct then, while I don't pretend to be able to assess whether Malcolm's proposed approach might be more successful, and I accept it's perfectly possible it might, it seems to me a near-certainty that it is destined to be more expensive.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by Adam Raoof » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:40 pm

If you gave me £12,000 and said "do something to develop English chess" I would run 10 FIDE norm events, make them Open swiss tournaments but limited to 20-30 x 2100+ players and eligible for norms.
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:51 pm

When will the new list of nominations be published?
Cheers
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David Sedgwick
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:59 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:51 pm
When will the new list of nominations be published?
By Wednesday 22nd September. Please see Michael Farthing's post on Page 6 of this thread.

David Gilbert
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by David Gilbert » Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:37 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:40 pm
If you gave me £12,000 and said "do something to develop English chess" I would run 10 FIDE norm events, make them Open swiss tournaments but limited to 20-30 x 2100+ players and eligible for norms.
I’d prefer to invest in the development of grassroots chess - the Clubs. One idea would be to share the money between the Unions to organise one day (rapidplay) regional club championships with inclusive rating bands covering, not just for the already elite. These can be billed as ECF Regional Championships so Clubs & players know they are getting something back for their membership fees.

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John Upham
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by John Upham » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:06 pm

I imagine that a return of the Cutty Sark (other sponsors are available) Grand Prix Series with a decent prize fund fit for 2021 - 2022 would be most welcome.

Would anyone else welcome its return?
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John Reyes
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Re: Nominations 2021

Post by John Reyes » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:45 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:12 pm
Michael Farthing wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:34 pm
Andrew is correct, though candidates will be announced when their election addresses are published with the Notice of Meeting which will be by 22 September. This provides an interlude where candidates are aware of each other. Sometimes individuals wish to withdraw at this point. Of course, candidates are at liberty to declare themselves publicly before this.
When I was a member of Council, the list of candidates nominated was published shortly after the close of nominations.

Your justification for suppressing that information for nearly two weeks seems very thin to me.
will they give a list of the Candidates 1st as i'm thinking there be as least one election that will be challenged
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