Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.

Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance.

Poll ended at Mon May 31, 2021 10:54 am

I would be willing to be a player or an arbiter at an event conducted on the basis of these arrangements
16
44%
I would be not willing to be a player or an arbiter at an event conducted on the basis of these arrangements.
15
42%
Other (please post in the thread).
4
11%
Don't know.
1
3%
 
Total votes: 36

John Reyes
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by John Reyes » Wed May 12, 2021 7:09 pm

Is there any chess clubs meeting on the 17th or after?
Any postings on here represent my personal views only and also Dyslexia as well

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed May 12, 2021 8:02 pm

Barrow CC hopes to meet on the 19th (next Wednesday)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Andy Stoker
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by Andy Stoker » Wed May 12, 2021 9:59 pm

I consider the greatest risk is that we typically place opponents less than 1m apart, which is directly against Government / NHS guidance - irrespective of mitigations (masks, ventilation etc). I'd be interested to know how Barrow CC is addressing this.

I am a Chemical Process Safety professional - we talk about both "hazard" and "risk" - the combination of hazard and its perceived likelihood gives us risk.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 12, 2021 10:12 pm

Andy Stoker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 9:59 pm
I consider the greatest risk is that we typically place opponents less than 1m apart, which is directly against Government / NHS guidance - irrespective of mitigations (masks, ventilation etc).
Isn't this requirement due to be removed in June? If not then, then when?

What is objectively the risk if two people, both vaccinated, play a game of chess against one another?

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed May 12, 2021 10:22 pm

We will still be doing our best to follow "Covid safe" guidance for the time being.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed May 12, 2021 10:26 pm

Andy Stoker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 9:59 pm
I consider the greatest risk is that we typically place opponents less than 1m apart, which is directly against Government / NHS guidance - irrespective of mitigations (masks, ventilation etc). I'd be interested to know how Barrow CC is addressing this.

I am a Chemical Process Safety professional - we talk about both "hazard" and "risk" - the combination of hazard and its perceived likelihood gives us risk.
We've been through this before restarting - juniors only - at Watford. Last summer, when a 2M separation was being recommended, we used the "two boards" solution. Now, however, the arithmetic starts from the fact that a wide table is likely to be approximately 70 cms across. That means, if both players are leaning forward at the same time, they're closer than 1M. If they're both sitting bolt upright, there's clearance between body and table on both sides and they're probably around 1M apart. Safer still, though, is for the player whose move it isn't to get up and view the board from behind his or her chair. [And yes, masks are mandatory except for the youngest].

Andy Stoker
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by Andy Stoker » Wed May 12, 2021 10:31 pm

Vaccination (obviously) reduces the likelihood of (serious) infection - it doesn't eliminate it. But then you know that.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu May 13, 2021 12:12 am

It almost eliminates the chance of *serious* infection. It should be up to individuals to decide if the (small) remaining risk is worth it.
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Andy Stoker
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by Andy Stoker » Thu May 13, 2021 8:43 am

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 12:12 am
It almost eliminates the chance of *serious* infection. It should be up to individuals to decide if the (small) remaining risk is worth it.
yes - very much agree - but it's also the responsibility of organisers to minimise the risk - that's what people expect. Are you requiring people to be (twice?) vaccinated before they come to the club?

Latest Government advice includes the following - are you willing to share the measures you will be taking?:

"Step 3
From 17 May, if you are meeting friends and family, you can make a personal choice on whether to keep your distance from them, but you should still be cautious. This advice applies to everyone, including people who are clinically extremely vulnerable and to pregnant women, apart from care home residents where separate guidance applies.

COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact (within 2 metres). The further away you can keep from other people, and the less time you spend in close contact with them, the less likely you are to catch COVID-19 and pass it on to others. Close contact, including hugging, increases the risk of spreading COVID-19.

There are actions you can take to reduce the chance of spreading COVID-19 and help keep you and your loved ones safe. This includes:

Meet outside - When people are outside and physically distanced from each other, the particles containing the virus that causes COVID-19 are blown away which makes it less likely that they will be breathed in by another person.
If you do meet inside, make sure the space is well ventilated. Open windows and doors, or take other action to let in plenty of fresh air. Bringing fresh air into a room and removing older stale air that may contain virus particles reduces the chance of spreading COVID-19. The more fresh air that is brought inside, the quicker any airborne virus will be removed from the room.
Take the vaccine when you are offered it, and encourage others to as well. Vaccines reduce (but do not eliminate) the chances of catching COVID-19 and passing it on, and of serious illness. Consider whether you and your loved ones are vaccinated and whether there has been time for the vaccine to take effect before being in close contact .
Remember that some people are more vulnerable than others to being seriously ill from COVID-19. The risks from COVID-19 and therefore of close contact are greater for some people than others, for example because they are clinically extremely vulnerable, pregnant or older. For example, you might choose not to have close contact with an elderly relative at this point, particularly if one or both of you are not vaccinated.
Minimise how many people you’re in close contact with, and for how long. The more people you are in close contact with - particularly if they are from different households - the higher the chances of you catching or passing on COVID-19. Longer periods of close contact increase the risk of transmission, but remember that even brief contact can spread COVID-19 and there is no such thing as a fully safe period of close contact.
Get tested twice a week, even if you don’t have symptoms. Around 1 in 3 people with coronavirus do not show symptoms, so can spread the virus to others without knowing. Testing regularly will help to reduce risk, particularly before meeting people from outside your household. You can order free home tests for you and your loved ones that give results in 30 minutes.
Wash hands and clean surfaces regularly to remove virus particles.
You should always make space for other people to keep their distance if they want to.

In some settings, there will be specific guidance that you will need to follow even when you are with friends and family. This is important to reduce the risk of spreading COVID-19 to other people such as staff and other members of the public. You should always follow guidance associated with the setting you are in (for example in education, health, or care settings).

COVID-secure rules, including social distancing requirements, continue to apply in the workplace, and in businesses and public venues. This guidance does not affect a site owner’s responsibility to calculate the number of people that can be accommodated with social distancing in place."

My apologies for the length of this - and it's information we already know - but I'm not clear how chess clubs operate with a suitably low level of risk against this advice.... I'm hoping for much more detail from ECF - such that clubs can operate with a degree of confidence.

NickFaulks
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by NickFaulks » Thu May 13, 2021 9:54 am

Andy Stoker wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 8:43 am
My apologies for the length of this - and it's information we already know - but I'm not clear how chess clubs operate with a suitably low level of risk against this advice.... I'm hoping for much more detail from ECF - such that clubs can operate with a degree of confidence.
All of the above relates to Step 3. While I applaud the efforts of those who are keeping chess alive, particularly for juniors, I continue to regard adult chess as a banned activity until Step 4.

As for "more detail from the ECF", you've already got a document listing 45 things to consider. How many do you want?
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Joseph Conlon
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by Joseph Conlon » Thu May 13, 2021 10:12 am

Andy Stoker wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 8:43 am
yes - very much agree - but it's also the responsibility of organisers to minimise the risk - that's what people expect.
Because what you said sounds obviously true, I think it is worth saying (as an organiser) that I disagree with it.

People have different risk tolerances (for good and understandable reasons). I think organisers should be clear on the risk tolerance they are adopting, and communicate that clearly, but I don't think they have a responsibility to run events on the sole basis of minimising the risks of covid transmission (otherwise all events would be online).

Then punters can decide whether they want to enter event (A) with all players remaining 2 metre separated and two boards and perspex sheeting, or event (B) where they play conventionally opposite the same person for a couple of hours.

Some would be distressed at (A) and some distressed at (B), and I don't say either is right or wrong - e.g. events for 70 years old are just different to events for 7 year olds, and the Covid risk is very different for these two groups.

Andy Stoker
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by Andy Stoker » Thu May 13, 2021 10:33 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 9:54 am
Andy Stoker wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 8:43 am
My apologies for the length of this - and it's information we already know - but I'm not clear how chess clubs operate with a suitably low level of risk against this advice.... I'm hoping for much more detail from ECF - such that clubs can operate with a degree of confidence.
All of the above relates to Step 3. While I applaud the efforts of those who are keeping chess alive, particularly for juniors, I continue to regard adult chess as a banned activity until Step 4.

As for "more detail from the ECF", you've already got a document listing 45 things to consider. How many do you want?
Fair enough: I was prompted to write because of the report of an adult (I assume) chess club re-opening next week.

Agree there is a quite helpful extensive list of "things to consider" - but I would like clearer guidance.... the people who organise chess clubs are often not experts in epidemiology and disease transmission... it was interesting to read the result of considerations for one event and potential measures to increase separation between opponents - so, are we advised to use two sets and off set people?... are we advised to ask people to stand behind their seats when it isn't their move....? Or are we asking each chess club to work out their own strategy

Mick Norris
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by Mick Norris » Thu May 13, 2021 10:45 am

I know that here in Manchester, Ashton CCC have reopened following consultation with Public Health, the local Council and the venue owners, which seems a sensible way to approach it (they are of course predominately a junior club)

I think Eccles are reopening next week from what I understood at MCF Council this week, possibly Blue Club as well, and maybe a couple of others
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NickFaulks
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by NickFaulks » Thu May 13, 2021 10:46 am

Andy Stoker wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:33 am
Or are we asking each chess club to work out their own strategy
That is how I read

"As ever clubs, league or event organisers will need to make their own decisions based on their particular circumstances, the type of events being envisaged and the player groups involved".

Is there another way?
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Andy Stoker
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Re: Latest ECF Covid-19 Guidance

Post by Andy Stoker » Thu May 13, 2021 11:15 am

Another way - and I don't claim it is necessarily better - is for greater central guidance... this is how (for example) Scouts, Guides, Pilates groups, dancing schools, churches (eg CofE, Methodist....) work.

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