Peter Markland

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
David Sedgwick
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Re: Peter Markland

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:59 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:04 am
Now for my next question on this subject to those more in the know than I am.

Does a score of 5/9 against a tournament average of 2513.3, with the tournament compromised of 6 GMs, 2 IMs and two untitled players, with a sole unrated player (being the player scoring the 5/9), with eight nationalities represented, earn an IM norm?

By my reckoning it is more than ample, but I know nothing worthwhile of these things.
Your question may be irrelevant, unfortunately. Norms obtained prior to 2005 or 2006 - I forget which - can no longer be registered with FIDE.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Peter Markland

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:32 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:59 pm
Your question may be irrelevant, unfortunately. Norms obtained prior to 2005 or 2006 - I forget which - can no longer be registered with FIDE.
I imagine he was referring to Hastings 1970/71.

Here's a link to the cross table.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=80932

Once the Elo rating system got established, obtaining Norms became easier, but that was a little time later. Contemporary magazine reports probably discussed whether the Hastings events of the period qualified for Norm chances on the rules then applicable. Many of them didn't.

John McKenna

Re: Peter Markland

Post by John McKenna » Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:34 pm

The above Hastings 1970/1 tournament (1st GM L. Portisch 6/9, 2nd-6th GM W. Uhlmann, GM V. Hort, GM N. Krogius, GM S. Gligoric & P. MARKLAND 5, 7th Z. Mestrovic 4, 8-9th GM R. Byrne & IM R. Wade 3.5, 10th R. Keene 3) would appear from what follows to have met the requirement for FIDE title norms at that time...

1971 - first official FIDE International Rating List (IRL) -

"The first IRL carried the 208 most active participants in international tournaments during the 1966-8 period...
The entire group was given an arbitrary average rating and processed by the method of successive approximations...
Calculations for so large a matrix required a programmable computer, which yielded acceptable results after just eight iterations...
Continued interplay in 1969 & 1970 helped readjust the initial ratings to produce the first IRL and the beginning of the current titles process." (A. Elo)

1970 - FIDE adopted the Elo system.

1968 - FIDE IM title available to all players scoring 66.67%, or better, in a Zonal Tournament. (As RdC has already alluded to elsewhere on the forum.)

1965 New FIDE regulations made the criteria for titles "stiffer" -

"Under these criteria titles were awarded for single performances in certain championships... and for one or two achievements of title norms in other events...

The IM norm required a score of 35% against the GM, 55% against the IM and 75% against the untitled participants..." (A. Elo)

1957 Criteria for FIDE titles revised, by which time a further 16 GM, 95 IM & 23 WM titles had been awarded.

1950 - FIDE Golden Book with an initial, official 27 GMs, 94 IMs & 17 WMs (Women Masters) all alive, but not necessarily active, at the time.

David McAlister
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Re: Peter Markland

Post by David McAlister » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:01 pm

The BCM and Chess reports, at a quick glance, do not seem to make any direct reference to Peter Markland gaining an IM norm at Hastings 1970-1 but In the BCM Golombek did say that the IM norm was a little over 4. So Markland's win over Hort in the last round would seem to have taken him over the required score for the norm. In Chess Informant 11 there is a lower case "x" beside PM's rating performance. This "x" appears to indicate an IM performance/norm. An upper case "X" was the equivalent symbol for GM norms. Incidentally the same issue gives the new FIDE regulations for norms and the Elo-based Category system which were to come into effect from 1st July 1971.

Nigel Short
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Re: Peter Markland

Post by Nigel Short » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:29 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:04 am
Now for my next question on this subject to those more in the know than I am.

Does a score of 5/9 against a tournament average of 2513.3, with the tournament compromised of 6 GMs, 2 IMs and two untitled players, with a sole unrated player (being the player scoring the 5/9), with eight nationalities represented, earn an IM norm?

By my reckoning it is more than ample, but I know nothing worthwhile of these things.
The performance rating for GM norms was 2550 at the time, so I believe that Peter Markland did, indeed earn a GM norm for his result in Hastings, as he claimed himself ("British Chess", Pergamon Press, page 159).

Paul McKeown
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Re: Peter Markland

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:19 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:59 pm

Your question may be irrelevant, unfortunately. Norms obtained prior to 2005 or 2006 - I forget which - can no longer be registered with FIDE.
This is a shame. As David McAlister has established, the contemporary chess press appears to have recognised that Peter Markland made an IM norm at Hastings 1970/71. How it is that FIDE does not appear to have registered this norm seems very strange. I believe moreover that it can be shown that he would have had obtained two, possibly three, other IM norms, if present title rules were applicable to his full international tournament record.

I passed your message on that historical norms are no longer being registered, which PM has accepted with equanimity.

I should make it clear that it was I, not he, that chose to pursue the matter to see if anything could be done with the historical record.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Peter Markland

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:23 am

David McAlister wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:01 pm
The BCM and Chess reports...
Thank you, David - an excellent bit of research in the old journals. It seems to confirm what I understood. Why the norm is not registered with FIDE is a little odd.

Thank you also, Roger de Coverley, John McKenna and Nigel Short for your useful contributions.

NickFaulks
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Re: Peter Markland

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:28 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:19 am
I believe moreover that it can be shown that he would have had obtained two, possibly three, other IM norms, if present title rules were applicable to his full international tournament record.
I doubt that is correct. After the excellent Hastings performance he played in few rated events and only ever lost rating points. These were the very early days of the rating system and performances were greatly muddled by unrated opponents.
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Tim Harding
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Re: Peter Markland

Post by Tim Harding » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:28 pm

I am not sure if Peter Markland got a second FIDE norm somewhere but his performance at Wijk aan Zee B 1973, which I mentioned earlier, was far short of a norm and I think if he was close to getting a title subsequently I would have known it, We were doing analytical work together around 19874-75 for Batsford and Peter actually began work on a Caro-Kann book which was eventually never submitted for publication. He concentrated on correspondence play after his marriage, as I vaguely recall.
Tim Harding
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