Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.

Should the ECF organise more chess?

Poll ended at Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:34 pm

Yes
12
46%
No
14
54%
 
Total votes: 26

Jacques Parry
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:37 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by Jacques Parry » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:01 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:29 pm
If covid levels go back to this summer's levels, other countries proved that big tournaments can be safely held.
How do you know that those tournaments were safely held?

Mick Norris
Posts: 8517
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:51 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:54 am
Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:04 pm
I understand Roger's point. I did try to contextualise the question. There seem to be humans who are part of the ECF executive wondering what to do with their resources that the members will appreciate. I thought increasing the number of events the ECF runs might be it, but didn't manage to formulate a question that was very useful.
It was difficult to phrase my previous post without appearing to criticise Paul, which wasn't my intention. Instead I felt somewhat critical of those respondents who answered 'yes' if that signified that they expected others to undertake more, often unpaid, work without themselves rolling their own sleeves up or intending to do so.
Whereas, I'm sure you'll agree, suggesting the ECF does more as some of us do more ourselves, is ok; especially as it helps those of us pro-ECF to persuade some players to renew their ECF memberships, which is critical

The ECF can possibly get more volunteers for online events now than they could for OTB events
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Wadih Khoury
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by Wadih Khoury » Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:52 pm

Jacques Parry wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:01 pm
Wadih Khoury wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:29 pm
If covid levels go back to this summer's levels, other countries proved that big tournaments can be safely held.
How do you know that those tournaments were safely held?
Because none of the events I went to were a cluster (they all had contact details), none of the events other juniors I know went to, none of the events I followed either.
I think there was one or two cases of players having to self isolate during a tournament, which is definitely much less than pubs or night clubs.
You can even probably probably plot the number of games played in the main European countries since march and still observe that they overperformed us on safety.

In these times of covid, there is no such a thing as a safe interaction (anyone who has kids is doomed anyhow :lol: ), but some activities are safer than others.
I will give tonight or tomorrow an update on the Heidelberg open, but overall it went well, felt safe, and hopefully will prove to have been safe.

While I in no way minimise the risks of covid, I don't get why some try to depict chess as an extremely high risk activity while many participants demonstrated that the levels of safety in a properly run event is lower than a pub, hairdresser or dinner with 5 friends.

Joseph Conlon
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:18 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by Joseph Conlon » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:31 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:52 pm
While I in no way minimise the risks of covid, I don't get why some try to depict chess as an extremely high risk activity while many participants demonstrated that the levels of safety in a properly run event is lower than a pub, hairdresser or dinner with 5 friends.
Exactly this. The question is not, 'is OTB chess absolutely safe?'. The question is, compared to all the other activities and events that people (adults/children) willingly participate in at current times, is OTB chess comparable, higher or lower risk?

Jacques Parry
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:37 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by Jacques Parry » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:22 am

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:31 pm
Wadih Khoury wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:52 pm
While I in no way minimise the risks of covid, I don't get why some try to depict chess as an extremely high risk activity while many participants demonstrated that the levels of safety in a properly run event is lower than a pub, hairdresser or dinner with 5 friends.
Exactly this. The question is not, 'is OTB chess absolutely safe?'. The question is, compared to all the other activities and events that people (adults/children) willingly participate in at current times, is OTB chess comparable, higher or lower risk?
That is one question. Another question is whether those other activities are themselves safe.

Wadih Khoury
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by Wadih Khoury » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:38 am

Jacques Parry wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:22 am
Joseph Conlon wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:31 pm
Wadih Khoury wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:52 pm
While I in no way minimise the risks of covid, I don't get why some try to depict chess as an extremely high risk activity while many participants demonstrated that the levels of safety in a properly run event is lower than a pub, hairdresser or dinner with 5 friends.
Exactly this. The question is not, 'is OTB chess absolutely safe?'. The question is, compared to all the other activities and events that people (adults/children) willingly participate in at current times, is OTB chess comparable, higher or lower risk?
That is one question. Another question is whether those other activities are themselves safe.
No, a question dealing in absolutes has no meaning in this context. You usually need a reference point, a baseline.

Because to that question, the only safe activity is to live in a sterile plastic bubble, with food brought in from the outside made sterile. Unless the individual is at high risk you don't see people, scientists or governments advocating we turn out homes into biomedical facilities.

The question, as for any other risk in life is: "Is the risk of going out, driving, bungee jumping, riding a bike, etc acceptable in light of all risk factors and of all rewards".

Hypothetically speaking, what would some say if it could be proved that going to an OTB tournament had a lower death risk than riding a bike? The risk is still there, but would some still want to ban OtB?

NickFaulks
Posts: 6283
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:56 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:38 am
The risk is still there, but would some still want to ban OtB?
The UK is moving into a society where all human activity is banned unless it can demonstrate positive benefit to the State. Perhaps we are already there.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Jacques Parry
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:37 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by Jacques Parry » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:10 pm

In this case the risk is not just to those who choose to take it. Those who contract Covid are a danger to others. So it is for society, not the individual, to assess whether the risk presented by an activity is acceptable. If the risk involved in going to a pub or restaurant is acceptable, I agree that it would be illogical to draw the line at chess tournaments. But I would not accept that premise.

NickFaulks
Posts: 6283
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:01 pm

Jacques Parry wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:10 pm
In this case the risk is not just to those who choose to take it.
Quite the contrary. This is a relatively benevolent virus, which does not generally have a serious effect on those of working age otherwise in good health and spares children altogether. The elderly and infirm can take steps to protect themselves if they so choose, and if the economy were functioning there would be funds to support them.

I would find it disgustingly selfish for any elderly person to believe the lives of their children and grandchildren should be blighted for their own protection. I am happy to say that I do not count a single person who feels that way among my friends - or, as they would be, my former friends.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

John Sellen
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 4:30 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by John Sellen » Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:04 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
"I would find it disgustingly selfish for any elderly person to believe the lives of their children and grandchildren should be blighted for their own protection. I am happy to say that I do not count a single person who feels that way among my friends - or, as they would be, my former friends."

Please this is a chess forum and the particular topic is "Should the ECF organise more chess "

NickFaulks
Posts: 6283
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:56 pm

It was clearly a reaction to the view which has been expressed that OTB chess should not take place.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Ernie Lazenby
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:10 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:06 pm

I am 74 years old and have been playing chess every year since I was 16. Never missed a competitive season since 1970 and one of the few members still around when Cleveland chess association was formed in 1974. It was Teesside before that and I was a member of that. I mention these facts to demonstrate I love the game, been a large part of my life for a very long time but I am not in the slightest bit bothered that locally over the board chess has been suspended. It was the right thing to do. Nor do I expect anyone to go out of their way to protect my wife and I from Covid19. We are intelligent enough to do what's right for us and not meeting someone to play chess is one of them. We are still alive and thankful for what we have.
I recognise that professional chess players are in a difficult position during the pandemic and feel for them as I feel for my self employed son but the vast majority of people who play chess in the country do so as a hobby. I am sure we can all get on with our lives without chess for a while longer.
I have paid for my silver membership once again to help the ECF during worrying times as I am sure many others have. That said I don't expect the ECF to do anything that puts people at risk and they are not doing so.
Moaning about reality does not alter it.

Paul Cooksey
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by Paul Cooksey » Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:30 am

It used to be that every internet discussion inevitably ended up being about Nazism. But I think we are doomed to covid for the time being.

There is more I wanted to discuss about ECF strategy. Maybe later.

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MJMcCready
Posts: 1991
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by MJMcCready » Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:09 am

Could move to Sweden maybe? They seem to be doing alright over there.

Regarding ECF strategy, I would love to see more tournaments being organized but they need to rethink how to market and incentivize them. I played in the Monday afternoon blitz thing and very nearly pulled out because with about 10 mins to go only one other player showed up. Eventually there were 6 of us or something. Quite shocking really, once before I remember being the only one who showed up and the tournament was cancelled. If prizes or something could be given, that might help, like digital back copies of the BCM or something, at least something to generate more interest. A year's subscription to the winner or something.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Should the ECF try to organise more chess?

Post by MJMcCready » Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:12 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:56 pm
Wadih Khoury wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:38 am
The risk is still there, but would some still want to ban OtB?
The UK is moving into a society where all human activity is banned unless it can demonstrate positive benefit to the State. Perhaps we are already there.

Indeed it is but is the purpose of democracy that the government is there to improve the lives of the citizens who elected it and not vice-versa?

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