ECF Grading website club promotion idea

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: ECF Grading website club promotion idea

Post by Carl Hibbard » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:07 pm

Tryfon Gavriel wrote:In fact, it could be promoted on the Grading website to become a "full member" to get this additional information about the results of anyone including yourself. Maybe either an online automated payment system, or paying by phone to the ECF office could "unlock" the additional information if they gave you your password on the phone. Then you could login and see the extra grading breakdowns.
I liked the FREE idea of including the ECF membership code within the grading database - then for example ANYONE could lookup the full breakdown of a FULL member (who had a code) but that information would not be published for anyone else

So more an "encouragement" to become a member...
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Sean Hewitt

Re: ECF Grading website club promotion idea

Post by Sean Hewitt » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:07 am

Mick Norris wrote:Actually no, Alex, those of us running events have to pay a grader to actually do the grading for the event i.e. work out the grading performance for the players
Really? I always do it pro-bono! I'm ripping myself off!!

Richard Haddrell

Re: ECF Grading website club promotion idea

Post by Richard Haddrell » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:55 am

How often do local graders charge for their services? I’d have thought not often, but I don’t really know. Maybe it’s different up north.

On the role of the local grader, though, Mick has it wrong. Local graders don’t work grading performances out. They report raw game results, and the central system does the sums. The local grader’s contribution is twofold. Firstly he chases all the information the organisers should have supplied and haven’t, like J Smith’s first name and whether he’s the same as J Smith from the county next door. And what the missing birthdates are in that junior event, and who won the game where the pairing cards say both sides did. In extreme cases he has to chase the organisers to supply the results in the first place.

Secondly, he translates the game results into a form the central computer can read. If you run a congress using Tournament Director, TD will do this for you and you can be your own local grader and definitely not pay for the service!
Carl Hibbard wrote:I have asked a number of times that "we" publish additional information - in particular a breakdown of games for each person showing their performance (as per the direct member printout...)
I agree with Carl, if you hadn’t guessed. Maybe grades are only published once or twice a year, but detailed results don't have that constraint. They could be kept reasonably up to date. My instinct would be to make them available to all, à la Yorkshire and FIDE, but I see the objection. Tryfon’s login-and-password answer would be a huge new benefit of membership, and nobody loses. The non-members still get what they get now. I’m almost starting to like it.

I wouldn’t stop at “printout-style” details for individual players. I’d include tournament crosstables, and match results from leagues. This doesn’t mean links to other people’s websites. It means matches and crosstables derived from the grading database itself, so you know you’re looking at what’s actually in the grading system. This is important, because it’s a vehicle for checking and correction.

I’m being very free with other people’s time. I know these things are doable, because the central grading software does them. But the required information (rather a lot of it) has never found its way into the online database, and it wouldn’t be much use by itself if it did. Programming time would be needed as well, and the programming wouldn’t be mine. We’re looking at Carl and Howard. I think mostly Carl, but Howard might correct me.
Last edited by Richard Haddrell on Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: ECF Grading website club promotion idea

Post by Adam Raoof » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:59 am

If you run a congress using Tournament Director, TD will do this for you and you can be your own local grader and definitely not pay for the service!
I assume you will still have to pay game fee, however you do it! I think that those who do grading work should be paid, but not by organisers - any system of payments should be organised by the ECF.
Adam Raoof IA, IO
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: ECF Grading website club promotion idea

Post by Carl Hibbard » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:19 am

Richard Haddrell wrote:I’m being very free with other people’s time. I know these things are doable, because the central grading software does them. But the required information (rather a lot of it) has never found its way into the online database, and it wouldn’t be much use by itself if it did. Programming time would be needed as well, and the programming wouldn’t be mine. We’re looking at Carl and Howard. I think mostly Carl, but Howard might correct me.
I have already offered to do it although I prefer my method to the password type option :)
Cheers
Carl Hibbard