ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Kevin Thurlow
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat May 02, 2020 1:27 pm

"I paid £39 for my gold membership this year. If I've lost a third of my season I could claim the ECF owes me £13 if I wanted to be petty. However I have no intention of taking that attitude."

A fair point - I was due to play just after the lockdown started and the transport and refreshment costs would have exceeded £13. I have had to miss a tournament last week, where travel, entry fee and accommodation etc. would have been maybe £300. So, financially, not playing chess is good...

John McKenna
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by John McKenna » Sat May 02, 2020 1:45 pm

That's Thurlow on furlough then.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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Adam Raoof
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by Adam Raoof » Sat May 02, 2020 1:49 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:45 pm
That's Thurlow on furlough then.
Stop this. Right now.
Adam Raoof IA, IO
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David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat May 02, 2020 2:53 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:47 pm
It's hardly the fault of the ECF that people are currently prevented from playing chess. And at the start of the pandemic people such as myself who were calling for a `business as usual` approach (wrongly - I appreciate that now) were widely criticised.

The ECF membership year runs from 1st September to 31st August every year with memberships backdating no matter when they were taken out. So under your proposal either the membership year runs from 1st January going forward or memberships simply backdate to September when paid making no difference at all.

I paid £39 for my gold membership this year. If I've lost a third of my season I could claim the ECF owes me £13 if I wanted to be petty. However I have no intention of taking that attitude.
I'm not criticising what you have written - quite the reverse - but you could be getting something for your subscription right now if you wished. The current ECF Online weekly email lists eight events taking place during the period 1st to 7th May.

I am just off to watch one of those events - a Blitz team match between England and Bangladesh.

Nick Grey
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by Nick Grey » Sat May 02, 2020 6:32 pm

Switch The ECF membership year to 01/01/20 to 31/12/20 as the seasons too. If we cannot play over the board no charge 01/09/20 to 31/12/20. I will need to buy a new computer and better internet connection to play online chess.

my support during this time is elsewhere.

J T Melsom
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by J T Melsom » Sat May 02, 2020 8:18 pm

'I'm not criticising what you have written - quite the reverse - but you could be getting something for your subscription right now if you wished. The current ECF Online weekly email lists eight events taking place during the period 1st to 7th May.'

I applaud these initiatives, but I don't think you can argue that these represent services for which anybody paid a subscription, any more than would be the case if the ECF were to launch a range of problem-solving events. The payments made by ECF members pre-date these initiatives and were for the purposes of over the board competition.

I'm not sure that I can justify renewing my membership until there are competitions to participate in. Unless you regard the ECF as a charity, that seems to be expenditure which is difficult to regard as anything other than wasteful. I suspect that in many cases until the clubs resume, many chess players will not see the necessity of paying fees. There is a tendency to pay the ECF when reminded by club officers rather than when the renewal notice is sent out, especially when the person only plays the club season.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by Michael Farthing » Sat May 02, 2020 11:18 pm

<purple prose>
Well I have represented this point of view, amongst others, as a representative of silver members on the ECF Council for several years. I still think that it is a valid point of view and it needs to be taken serously. But I cannot feel that way myself. I want to play chess. I want to have a world in which chess events work in harmony across the country. I want to go to the Blackpool Chess Conference and get fliers for Frodsham and Preston and Bolton and Heysham and South Lakes and Leyland and Manchester and Nottingham (sentimental treat) and those further away that I've never reached. I want to play in local leagues, yet feel a part of a wider community. I want to play in County matches. I want to be at the County finals wearing an outrageous shirt. Indeed, I want to win the prize for most Outrageous Shirt. (It's the only prize I can hope for). Treasured memories of BCF congresses - of rubbing shoulders with the great - I'm never going to be a GM, an IM, an FM nor indeed any M other than a Michael.. but I can still play chess. And that is greatly aided by a federation of chess players coming together to keep that ship alive and I'm happy to pay for that, not because it is a charity, (which it isn't) but because it enables that whole cooperative venture to happen. It's in my own interest.
</purple prose>

Nick Grey
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by Nick Grey » Sun May 03, 2020 9:10 am

I have no intention of taking that attitude either.

Pick up a phone and chat with chess player friends that are not online.

J T Melsom
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by J T Melsom » Sun May 03, 2020 9:39 am

I've simply reflected the view that it won't be straightforward to get people to pay until there is something tangible to pay for. And there may be more pressing priorities. If you read my other posts about life after the pandemic, it is quite clear that I am committed to re-opening my club as soon as we are allowed to do so.

Nick Grey I am genuinely puzzled by your response, which suggests you will pay your membership given that in a previous post you have argued for membership to be free until the end of the year.

And I'm not sure describing sentences written in plain English as 'purple prose' is terribly helpful.

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JustinHorton
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by JustinHorton » Sun May 03, 2020 10:05 am

I pay my subscription to the ECF because it is a good idea for such a body to exist.

If people want to pay for things only on the basis "what do I immediately get out of it", they can do that, but I don't have much time for that worldview and I don't propose to argue with it.
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J T Melsom
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by J T Melsom » Sun May 03, 2020 10:15 am

If people want to pay for things only on the basis "what do I immediately get out of it", they can do that, but I don't have much time for that worldview and I don't propose to argue with it.

Well you have argued with it. I've not actually said that its exclusively about' what do I immediately get out of it. I am also a member of organisations because I believe in the cause. But going forward people won't just spend as they have before the pandemic, and we shouldn't pretend otherwise. If people want to pretend I'm anti-chess simply because I've expressed views less than gushing about the importance of chess then that's their problem.

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JustinHorton
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by JustinHorton » Sun May 03, 2020 10:42 am

Jonathan did it occur to you that not every response in this discussion is a response to you?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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J T Melsom
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by J T Melsom » Sun May 03, 2020 10:50 am

Justin Yes - but its not entirely clear to whom if anyone specific the responses are addressed. I'm as guilty of lack of clarity in that regard as others. A post directly below one of my own does tend to be read as being relevant to the post above, more so relatively early in the day. And there is a tendency for people to read more into a post than was intended, or just not to read properly if it doesn't suit them.

John McKenna
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by John McKenna » Sun May 03, 2020 11:04 am

Adam Raoof wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:49 pm
John McKenna wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:45 pm
SNIP
Stop this. Right now.
Unecessary but sufficient.

Perhaps we should all stop now and think about how this thread has - true to forum form - swichedbacked from the original permanent congratulatory (to the management) and temporary valedictory (to the staff) to a plethora of opining posts about membership and payment thereof.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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Adam Raoof
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Re: ECF Office Staff on Furlough

Post by Adam Raoof » Sun May 03, 2020 12:33 pm

I was only kidding ;-)

My feeling is that renewals will be poor. I think we should all renew but I think the ECF probably needs a fundamental rethink about what it offers, and make that offering cheaper.
Adam Raoof IA, IO
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Tornelo - https://tornelo.com/chess/orgs/chess-england
Simon Williams "The Ginger GM" - https://gingergm.com/ref/106.html
Don’t stop playing chess!

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