British Championship Congress 2021

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
David Sedgwick
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:27 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:37 pm
But you want GMs for norm purposes (although I know you need a variety of nations).
NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:45 pm
In a national championship, by definition you don't need a variety of nations ( except that you cannot use this exemption for all of your norms ).
Gentle reminder - Keith's post was about the British Online Championships.

NickFaulks
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:49 pm

Ah. I blame Kevin for leading me astray.
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:14 pm

"I blame Kevin for leading me astray."

Fair enough!

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Chris Goodall
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by Chris Goodall » Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:36 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:04 pm
Maybe, maybe not. A perennial worry before the pandemic was the ageing chess demographic and whether clubs/ leagues/ congresses would fold over time. The pandemic hasn't changed that.
Chess players have been fretting about the number of very old chess players for at least 20 years, during which time the age profile hasn't noticeably changed. We have this idea that 80-year-olds who retire from chess need to be replaced by 20-year-olds for chess to be "sustainable". They don't - chess will trundle along just fine if the 80-year-olds are replaced with 55-year-olds newly retired from work or from child-rearing, which is exactly what happens.

The preference for 20-year-olds over 55-year-olds (expressed by lots of people I've spoken to, on this forum and IRL) I feel is a little bit shortsighted and a little bit ageist. Chess is a game that doesn't tax your knees, your hand-eye coordination or your short-term memory. If people are going to take up a game at 55, it makes perfect sense for it to be chess!
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:48 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:36 pm
Chess players have been fretting about the number of very old chess players for at least 20 years, during which time the age profile hasn't noticeably changed.
Are you quite sure about that? Isn't it more the case that the players are mostly the same people as twenty years ago, only twenty years older? One way of validating is to look at grading codes. Codes in the range 10xxxx to 15xxxx were those issued when universal grading first went national in the mid 1980s.

There's no doubt a lot more players under ten in competitions than there were in the 1950s and 1960s. It doesn't translate into numerous players in their late teens and early twenties.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:35 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:36 pm
Chess is a game that doesn't tax ... your short-term memory.
You what?

Nick Grey
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:29 pm

Chess is for young and old and those in the middle. maybe the time in education and training is longer in the 2020s.

NickFaulks
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:55 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:35 pm
Chris Goodall wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:36 pm
Chess is a game that doesn't tax ... your short-term memory.
You what?
Yes, I tripped over that too. I'm not sure that it taxes much else.
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David Sedgwick
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:37 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:36 pm
Chess players have been fretting about the number of very old chess players for at least 20 years, during which time the age profile hasn't noticeably changed. We have this idea that 80-year-olds who retire from chess need to be replaced by 20-year-olds for chess to be "sustainable". They don't - chess will trundle along just fine if the 80-year-olds are replaced with 55-year-olds newly retired from work or from child-rearing, which is exactly what happens.
Something very similar to what you describe happens in bridge, which is how that mind sport has been sustained for many years.

Like Roger, I am not convinced that it has been happening in chess, at least in England.

Those who are still around twenty to thirty years from now will have found out, one way or the other.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:08 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:48 pm
Chris Goodall wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:36 pm
Chess players have been fretting about the number of very old chess players for at least 20 years, during which time the age profile hasn't noticeably changed.
Are you quite sure about that? Isn't it more the case that the players are mostly the same people as twenty years ago, only twenty years older? One way of validating is to look at grading codes. Codes in the range 10xxxx to 15xxxx were those issued when universal grading first went national in the mid 1980s.

There's no doubt a lot more players under ten in competitions than there were in the 1950s and 1960s. It doesn't translate into numerous players in their late teens and early twenties.
An interesting comment. Chris is right to say that there has been a lot of doom and gloom for many years and I have to admit that things aren't quite as bad as I dreaded twenty years ago. However some of it is driven by what I consider a "false boom" - chess was a massive thing in universities in the 1970s (and outside of it, due to the Fischer effect) and the students of the 1970s are the generation now retiring and returning to chess.

I am actually sad enough to do a bit of digging and compared my club's Yorkshire league teams from the last set of matches played (March 2020 before the pandemic) to twenty years previously. Of the 25 players who played for Harrogate in March 2000; 12 are still active and of the 13 inactive players 6 are known to be deceased. The average age of the teams in March 2000 (obviously a bit of guesstimating was involved here) was 50.36, in March 2020 it had risen to 57 (although three teenagers played in 2020 while the youngest players in 2000 were mid twenties).
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MartinCarpenter
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by MartinCarpenter » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:00 pm

Impressive records :) They definitely fit my impression - the Woodhouse (top division of the Yorkshire league) has seemed to add very few new long term players over the time I've been playing in it.

Mostly from people moving in/post retirement than juniors as well. 4NCL 3N isn't that different. Manchester has had 3C's, of course which has helped a huge amount.

The demographic, especially of those playing on a regular basis, just keeps getting steadily older. At some point we're going to have to start finding new players at quite a substantial rate. Or just let the leagues shrink.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:04 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:00 pm
Impressive records :) They definitely fit my impression - the Woodhouse (top division of the Yorkshire league) has seemed to add very few new long term players over the time I've been playing in it.

Mostly from people moving in/post retirement than juniors as well. 4NCL 3N isn't that different. Manchester has had 3C's, of course which has helped a huge amount.

The demographic, especially of those playing on a regular basis, just keeps getting steadily older. At some point we're going to have to start finding new players at quite a substantial rate. Or just let the leagues shrink.
And as I keep saying, those players already exist.

its just that they have only ever played online up to now.

Change that, somehow, and a healthy future for OTB chess is assured.
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Simon Rogers
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by Simon Rogers » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:15 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:00 pm
Impressive records :) They definitely fit my impression - the Woodhouse (top division of the Yorkshire league) has seemed to add very few new long term players over the time I've been playing in it.

Mostly from people moving in/post retirement than juniors as well. 4NCL 3N isn't that different. Manchester has had 3C's, of course which has helped a huge amount.

The demographic, especially of those playing on a regular basis, just keeps getting steadily older. At some point we're going to have to start finding new players at quite a substantial rate. Or just let the leagues shrink.
I've mentioned earlier in the Topic as a reply to Mr Melsom about Poulton Chess Club and our growing numbers and about sharing some ideas and best practice. In 2019 we gained a lot of new members mostly people in their twenties. Initially they just wanted to play social chess at the club but after spending time with each one of them and keeping in contact with them during the pandemic, they seem keen to play more serious stuff.
I was thinking about starting a new Topic in General Chat about how to grow chess clubs and sharing some ideas.
I'm more optimistic about the future, we have had a lot of new enquiries from people wanting to join our club after playing chess online during lockdown and watching the Queen's Gambit.

Duncan Grossett
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by Duncan Grossett » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:30 pm

I have played with my club (Bristol&Clifton) for nearly 30 years. For 6 board league matches we have had 5 of the same players for about 15 years, 3 of us for over 20 years, and our 6th player has been a club member for 10+ years. In our league new players are the exception rather than the rule. I am not too optimistic about the future of otb chess I'm afraid.

Simon Rogers
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Re: British Championship Congress 2021

Post by Simon Rogers » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:54 pm

We were getting a lot of 'walk ins' , Lytham Chess Club also grew a fair bit before the pandemic.
As your roving reporter, I visited a few websites over in New Zealand and discovered since their lockdown was lifted there has been record numbers at tournaments and Chess clubs. There was a lot of new members due to people watching the Queen's Gambit.
During lockdown apparently in many countries including ours, how to play Chess was the second most googled thing.

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