Do we actually want to do that thoughWadih Khoury wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:37 amI am sure others can bring more ideas to the table, but as I see it, chess sponsoring brings at least a couple of things:
- Associate your brand with a "serious" and "intellectual" activity.
Chief Executive 2021
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
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"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
An interesting idea. One issue with 'investing' in property is that it only provides a return when sold, unless rented out, so gains could only materialise when the ECF downsizes. At least an investment fund earns an annual income.Adam Raoof wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:29 amIt might be better to ditch the investments, which (due to the market) produce very little return, and invest the money in a property that could be a national chess centre.
What would a national chess centre be used for? Would it be a drop-in for casual chess players to go for a game, a venue for events, an enormous bookshop, an office for the development officers?
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
Nick Burrows wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:40 amIt's obvious to most of us that it should be in Bolton.Mick Norris wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:33 amNational Chess Centre - a big row about where it should be located
I was thinking Ilkley given they've already made a start
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
Hastings has sponsorship from Caplin. This gets its name in front of (young) people who are potential employees.
This is great for both the Hastings Congress and Caplin.
However, that is the exception in Britain. A significant reason for that is the difficulty in getting publicity for a sponsor. In most countries abroad the papers have chess columns which will promote the event and the sponsor. That is almost impossible in Britain.
Some years ago the Scottish Championships were held in Edinburgh and supported by the local council who appointed its press officer to gain publicity. A chat with this person during the event was a bit disheartening. Despite having the appropriate contacts, he was extremely disappointed with how little coverage the event was getting. The simul and picture of youngsters playing chess outside the City Chambers did make the local paper but not much else was covered.
Sponsors are looking to get something for their money. This is usually their name in front of a wide audience. Chess in Britain cannot achieve this.
I admit to be guilty here too (actually I gave up), but how many local organisers/club secretaries send 'news items' to their local papers. When chess appears in the media sponsors are interested.
Queen's Gambit could have been a great opportunity to get sponsors on board. Unfortunately the pandemic stopped 'real' chess at the same time. Online chess in Britain would be almost impossible to sell to a new sponsor. If they did even minimum research the comments about cheating would chase them away.
But I've wondered of the topic other than to cast doubts on anyone who would suggest that they can get massive amounts of sponsorship for chess, other than at the very highest level.
This is great for both the Hastings Congress and Caplin.
However, that is the exception in Britain. A significant reason for that is the difficulty in getting publicity for a sponsor. In most countries abroad the papers have chess columns which will promote the event and the sponsor. That is almost impossible in Britain.
Some years ago the Scottish Championships were held in Edinburgh and supported by the local council who appointed its press officer to gain publicity. A chat with this person during the event was a bit disheartening. Despite having the appropriate contacts, he was extremely disappointed with how little coverage the event was getting. The simul and picture of youngsters playing chess outside the City Chambers did make the local paper but not much else was covered.
Sponsors are looking to get something for their money. This is usually their name in front of a wide audience. Chess in Britain cannot achieve this.
I admit to be guilty here too (actually I gave up), but how many local organisers/club secretaries send 'news items' to their local papers. When chess appears in the media sponsors are interested.
Queen's Gambit could have been a great opportunity to get sponsors on board. Unfortunately the pandemic stopped 'real' chess at the same time. Online chess in Britain would be almost impossible to sell to a new sponsor. If they did even minimum research the comments about cheating would chase them away.
But I've wondered of the topic other than to cast doubts on anyone who would suggest that they can get massive amounts of sponsorship for chess, other than at the very highest level.
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
How much does the ECF make from interest on its investments? I am fairly certain it could make far more by investing in a property and hiring it out, or running events. This has to be better, and it is why we now have a Mindsports Centre in Hammersmith and a chess centre in Ilkley!Graham Borrowdale wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:52 amAn interesting idea. One issue with 'investing' in property is that it only provides a return when sold, unless rented out, so gains could only materialise when the ECF downsizes. At least an investment fund earns an annual income.Adam Raoof wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:29 amIt might be better to ditch the investments, which (due to the market) produce very little return, and invest the money in a property that could be a national chess centre.
What would a national chess centre be used for? Would it be a drop-in for casual chess players to go for a game, a venue for events, an enormous bookshop, an office for the development officers?
Adam Raoof IA, IO
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
I suppose this is a politics thread, so we ought to note how this relates to Malcolm's candidacy, which seems very optimistic in this respectAlex McFarlane wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:05 amBut I've wondered of the topic other than to cast doubts on anyone who would suggest that they can get massive amounts of sponsorship for chess, other than at the very highest level.
I am really happy Chess Fest went ahead. I view it as a very positive thing. But in terms of media coverage, very little. Google it.
It does demonstrate there is a good team with lots of enthusiasm and capability. But I don't think it supports that this is a moment of great opportunity that can easily be leveraged.
(edit again - I need to spell check better!)
Last edited by Paul Cooksey on Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
An interesting discussion. In my view, there is no real chess culture in Britain. Never has been; probably never will be - and I remain utterly unconvinced by the online 'explosion'.
An experiment. Get out a set in your local pub - not in a side-room, but where the ordinary punters hang out. Play a game. Will this look like a totally normal activity? Or will you attract puzzled looks, especially if a clock is involved?
Our chess culture will have arrived when there are no funny looks. In the meantime sponsors will run a mile, for this and many other reasons.
An experiment. Get out a set in your local pub - not in a side-room, but where the ordinary punters hang out. Play a game. Will this look like a totally normal activity? Or will you attract puzzled looks, especially if a clock is involved?
Our chess culture will have arrived when there are no funny looks. In the meantime sponsors will run a mile, for this and many other reasons.
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
The ECF itself has barely enough money to get from one year to the next. Hence the various discussions about a minimum level of reserves, £ 100,000 is often quoted as necessary. It spends that much and more over a year's activity.Adam Raoof wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:11 amHow much does the ECF make from interest on its investments?
The various charity and PIF funds are invested directly or indirectly in stock market investments rather than deposits earning next to nothing.
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
Could you expand a bit more please?JustinHorton wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:45 amDo we actually want to do that thoughWadih Khoury wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:37 amI am sure others can bring more ideas to the table, but as I see it, chess sponsoring brings at least a couple of things:
- Associate your brand with a "serious" and "intellectual" activity.
I think money into chess from non-dodgy companies is to be welcomed. If there were more money into congresses, maybe more players could make a living out of chess, meaning more juniors would spend more time to it, overall level would improve, the UK would be more competitive, there would be more events at grass root level, etc...
When you think about Raducanu in tennis, I think pre-summer her lifetime gains were about £30k. That's for someone who was ranked 200? 300? in the women's circuit. But that means that she had some income from it, could spend more time training. How many chess players in the UK had lifetime gains of £30k+ at her age? What are the lifetime gains of someone ranked 300?
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
Would that be gross or net? Tennis can be an expensive sport, more expensive than chess certainly. Back in the 1970s and 1980s it had been possible for young players to earn their living almost exclusively from playing in a way that wasn't possible in the 1950s and 1960s and probably isn't now without spending most of their time coaching.Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:51 amHow many chess players in the UK had lifetime gains of £30k+ at her age?
I don't think even Carlsen can earn the mind watering sums available to top tennis players.
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
I'm not sure that is the best analogy, she was a schoolgirl studying for her A levels. Are you saying that she would otherwise have had to do a paper round?Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:51 amWhen you think about Raducanu in tennis, I think pre-summer her lifetime gains were about £30k. That's for someone who was ranked 200? 300? in the women's circuit. But that means that she had some income from it, could spend more time training.
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
It might help if the culture of the country was more like this: http://ndlazi.uk
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
You see how that's a Malthusian trap, though? Chess ability is a pyramid. If you draw a horizontal line through the pyramid, and you say "everyone above this line should be able to make a living out of chess, everyone below this line, go get a job" then there will always be a cohort of players who are juuuust the wrong side of line - the wannabe professionals. The people who think they could make it as professionals if only the administrators would get their act together and bring some more money in.Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:51 amI think money into chess from non-dodgy companies is to be welcomed. If there were more money into congresses, maybe more players could make a living out of chess [...]
If you succeed in bringing that money in, so that everyone who currently wants to be a professional can be a professional, you are merely drawing the line further down the pyramid. You will soon find to your dismay that a new, larger cohort of wannabe professionals, who previously would never dream of quitting the day job, are now questioning your commitment to English chess.
Or a National Chess Library?Graham Borrowdale wrote: ↑ an enormous bookshop
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
Mr Malthus, eat your heart out. I speak as someone who 40 years ago, was just below what we may now call the 'Goodall line'.
And I really didn't want to get a job!
And I really didn't want to get a job!
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Re: Chief Executive 2021
I think we have to be realistic. There isn't going to be "massive" investment in chess any time soon. However there have been, in the past, companies willing to sponsor specific things such as the England Olympiad team and/ or the British Championship.
What England currently has an almost complete dearth of is closed all play all tournaments for titled players. These seem to be common enough on the continent and is the reason many of our top players spend so much time abroad, to the point where they often choose to live there.
What England currently has an almost complete dearth of is closed all play all tournaments for titled players. These seem to be common enough on the continent and is the reason many of our top players spend so much time abroad, to the point where they often choose to live there.
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All views expressed entirely my own