No news is bad news

Discussions regarding the 70,000 Free Chess Sets for Schools in England.
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JustinHorton
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Re: No news is bad news

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:42 pm

andrew martin wrote:Yesterday, I received about 30 new applications from schools for the free sets, today more . This is happening because the advert on the front of the ECF site continues to remain unchanged.

I have nothing to say to these schools apart from to apologise for the delay until clarification from Holloid is received
I have to say I wouldn't mind hearing some clarifcation direct from Holloid: presumably the ECF statement in October effectively came from them, but somethinga little more direct and a little more definitive wouldn't go amiss.
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andrew martin

Re: No news is bad news

Post by andrew martin » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:59 pm

Stewart Rueben reports that Gerry Walsh is trying to contact them daily, but they are not responding.

Impasse.

Andrew

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Re: No news is bad news

Post by Steve Henderson » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:26 pm

andrew martin wrote: Gerry is in Dresden at the Olympiad.
That says it all - !!!!!

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JustinHorton
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Re: No news is bad news

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:29 pm

To be fair it's not strictly speaking an unreasonable place for him to be: I'm not sure that he'd be doing any more good sitting at one end of an unanswered phone at home.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: No news is bad news

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:46 pm

A swift look at the ECF's officials list reveals that Gerry Walsh is the ECF's FIDE Delegate. It would be reasonable to assume he is attending the Olympiad either in that capacity or as an arbiter; both seem reasonable to me.

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Re: No news is bad news

Post by Neill Cooper » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:33 pm

andrew martin wrote:Stewart Rueben reports that Gerry Walsh is trying to contact them daily, but they are not responding.
It sounds increasingly like the all too frequent occurence of a company trying to get payment for an unpaid invoice:

"We'll pay it next week when we do the monthly cheque run"

2 weeks later : "The cheque is in the post"

2 weeks later "The letter must have got lost, we'll print a copy in this month's cheque run, next week"

2 weeks later .. the cheque arrives and is banked that day.

1 week later - the cheque has bounced. Time for the small claims court

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Re: No news is bad news

Post by David Robertson » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:34 pm

Andrew Martin wrote:Stewart Reuben reports that Gerry Walsh is trying to contact them daily, but they are not responding. Impasse
When someone won't take your call, that's not an impasse; that's a freeze-out.

Holloid is no longer active in this matter. In fact it's barely active in any matter. Hasn't been for months

Road. The. End of. Even the ECF Board can organise that into a well-known phrase or saying. Even an ECF Maestro could, possibly

David
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: No news is bad news

Post by Carl Hibbard » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:44 pm

The project (and probably Holloid...) have gone a delicate shade of norwegan blue
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

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Re: No news is bad news

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:56 pm

Ernie, I think you (and the rest of us) are wasting your (and the rest of us are wasting our) time on this thread - and have been for some time now. It's clear that whatever is said on this forum has no effect on the ECF.

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Re: No news is bad news

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:45 pm

Well, I hope you're right - although I fear it may be the triumph of hope over experience.

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JustinHorton
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Re: No news is bad news

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:57 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:were in the main attended by the loud mouths and political activists, the down to earth good honest hard working men never bothered because they could not see any point.
Well, it's my opinion and experience that the loudest mouths tend to be the people who want to complain but can't be arsed to do anything constructive about it .(In which service, I might acidly remark, they like to use a lot of terms like "down to earth" "good honest" and "hard working", which they tend to use, loudly, in bars.) Incidentally if there are any loudmouths or or political activists at the ECF, who on earth are they? I mean I could plausibly be accused of being both, but not many ECF officials resemble mea great deal, I wouldn't have said.

Anyway, the thing is, Ernie, there seems to be a lot more loudmouthery among the critics of the ECF than among its officals, which is a shame because I think we need critics - but good ones. I've said more than once that I won't currently take sides in ECF disputes, and there's a couple of reasons for this. One is that I think it's something of a sideshow as regards the problems and the future of English chess, which don't seem to me to have too much to do with the ECF for good or bad. Other people may disagree with me, which is great, but I don't always see them making the case why. The other is that too much of the criticism strikes me as being loudmouthery - not just in the sense of being personally aggressive and unpleasant (which some of it undoubtedly is) but in the sense of any-criticism-will-do. So just recently on this thread we have criticism of Gerry Walsh for being in Dresden - which of course is precisely where he should be. No great credit on his part that he's there, he only has to get on a plane and get off it at the other end, but it's not remotely wrong for him to be there. Is it?

Y'see, Ernie, I don't want personal abuse or loudmouthery or bar talk. I want informed criticism which says "this is specifcally what's been done wrong, this is specifically what should be done better and how". A lot of criticism does come under that rubric, and when it's done right it's powerful criticism. Moreover, if the ECF is being run as badly as being claim - and this may well be the case - there's no need for people to exaggerate, still less to abuse, because a good case doesn't need exaggeration nor aggression.

Incidentally I'm aware that saying the above might seem a bit sanctimonious. My apologies to anybody who finds it so, it's not intended as such. But I say it because I've spent some real time over the past period trying to ask myself, and other people, serious questions about how English chess comes to be in the position it is, who's fault that is and to what extent and - obviously most importantly - what can be done about it. And it strikes me that some of the criticism is of such a manner and style that it can only make it harder to have these questions asked properly, or to have people listen to the answer (or contribute their own). Which is what I want.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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JustinHorton
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Re: No news is bad news

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:06 pm

Anyway, Holloid. We do seem to have two schools of thought here. One is that nothing is going to happen, that Holloid no longer wish to be involved in the project even if they ever really were, and that no free sets of any kinds will ever be forthcoming. The other is that Holloid remain interested and that evetually something should happen. My inclination is to the first of these views - but if I understood him properly, Martin Regan is of the second and he's in a better position to know what happened (up to a given point in time) than any of us.

Now we can't learn any more about what's going on without a statement - and statements have tended to be what we've not tended to have. So what I propose is that people ask for one, and they do in public - an open letter type of thing. Nothing rhetorical or aggressive or over-the-top, as that will just look like a personal attack - but something that will be both public (so that people know it exists) and couched in terms that would make it look unreasonable to ignore.

If people want, I'll write it myself. Would anybody be amenable to that? Then people can critique it, change it or whatever, then anybody who likes it can append their names to it and I'll issue it.

What say ye?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Re: No news is bad news

Post by John Upham » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:24 pm

Justin,

Do you think "Private "Eye" might be interested in discussing this issue?

Do you know of anyone who could provide them with background material?

Maybe Kingpin could be the guest publication featured on "Have I got news for you"?

J.
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JustinHorton
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Re: No news is bad news

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:52 pm

John Upham wrote:Justin,

Do you think "Private "Eye" might be interested in discussing this issue?
I very much doubt it.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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JustinHorton
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Re: No news is bad news

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:51 pm

Hey ho....

....Ernie, you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that because I wrote a post replying to yours that everything in it necessarily referred to you. I wonder however whether inadvertently you do not help make my point for me.

Try again eh?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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