Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Discussions regarding the 70,000 Free Chess Sets for Schools in England.
David Robertson
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Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by David Robertson » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:18 pm

I understand that Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics have parted company. I do not know the circumstances and cannot speculate further.

I can however ask the ECF 'Chess for Schools' people to comment. Has the deal for 250,000 free chess sets been sealed with Holloid? Is Christie's departure connected with the 'Chess for Schools' project? Has Holloid reconfirmed its commitment to the donation in the wake of Christie's exit? Or has the whole project gone 't*ts up', leaving an embarrassing crater in the ECF Board's reputation for competence?

Some statement would be helpful.

David
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Chris Majer
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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by Chris Majer » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:33 pm

David is correct that Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics have parted company, however his pessimism is unjustified.

At a meeting yesterday, Holloid confirmed that they remain committed to the project. Unfortunately, Holloid have had a problem with one of their moulds and this has delayed production. A statement on the production of sets will be issued once this has been resolved. The ECF remains in close contact with Holloid.
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David Robertson
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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by David Robertson » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:42 pm

Fair enough, Chris - up to a point. And thanks for the reply. But excuse the further questions.

Were Holloid present in person at the meeting yesterday? I understand they were not. If I'm right, who represented their position to the meeting? And did that person have the authority of Holloid to represent their position? Finally, do you believe the explanations you have been given by whoever is claiming to represent Holloid? And has the ECF reviewed its position on the 'Chess for Schools' project in case it has been led up the garden path?

David
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Charles W. Wood
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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by Charles W. Wood » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:06 am

David Robertson wrote:Fair enough, Chris - up to a point. And thanks for the reply. But excuse the further questions.

Were Holloid present in person at the meeting yesterday? I understand they were not. If I'm right, who represented their position to the meeting? And did that person have the authority of Holloid to represent their position? Finally, do you believe the explanations you have been given by whoever is claiming to represent Holloid? And has the ECF reviewed its position on the 'Chess for Schools' project in case it has been led up the garden path?

David
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Hi David

Understanding of corporate ethos are needed to understand sponsorship deals. So Email, Telephones and texts don't exist in your mad world. Sadly if you want to pick holes in a huge sponsorship deals, you can, all of them (AIG and Man U, Santander and Maclaren, Malborough and every F1 race track in the world). The rest of us just keep working to make the best chance we have ever had work!

Heres the question, most people know that your as mad as a hatter, but how would you have dealt with a project this big, and let me to pick holes in your plan. If your brave enough (which I doubt, all mouth and all that), heres what your have. 250,000 chess set, weighing 300 tonnes going to 25,000 locations what would you do David? This better be brilliant as we are all waiting for this one.
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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:28 am

Leaving to one side the matter of David's sanity, it's perfectly in order for him to request the information he did in his post (there might, I'll grant you, have been more diplomatic ways of phrasing the final two questions).

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Charles W. Wood
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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by Charles W. Wood » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:04 am

FM Jack Rudd wrote:Leaving to one side the matter of David's sanity, it's perfectly in order for him to request the information he did in his post (there might, I'll grant you, have been more diplomatic ways of phrasing the final two questions).
You may be right Jack, but as a huge and pure negative person like David is nothing more than a numpty trying to make a small name for him self. Heres the question, deal is done, did he come to the "Chess for Schools" meeting;- No! Why, couldn't be bothered and he was one of the few people who could have. Was most of this talked about yes. Are Holloid honouring the deal, yes, are they in contact with the ECF board yes. Does the nasty DR see spy's around every corner yes, but thats just the way he runs his life. Bless, Junior Organiser, Priceless. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by Carl Hibbard » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:04 am

Charles W. Wood wrote:
FM Jack Rudd wrote:Leaving to one side the matter of David's sanity, it's perfectly in order for him to request the information he did in his post (there might, I'll grant you, have been more diplomatic ways of phrasing the final two questions).
You may be right Jack, but as a huge and pure negative person like David is nothing more than a numpty trying to make a small name for him self. Heres the question, deal is done, did he come to the "Chess for Schools" meeting;- No! Why, couldn't be bothered and he was one of the few people who could have. Was most of this talked about yes. Are Holloid honouring the deal, yes, are they in contact with the ECF board yes. Does the nasty DR see spy's around every corner yes, but thats just the way he runs his life. Bless, Junior Organiser, Priceless. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Enough children - the question raised was a valid one and deserves a better response, some more information needs to be published on the status of the project

I will come down (if needed...) if this gets personal again :cry:
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by Peter Turner » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:12 am

I must say that I find some of the recent exchanges dispressing and unhelpful. When this project first became public knowledge I contacted key people involved to express my concern that it had the capacity to hugely embarrass or indeed bankrupt the ECF. Should storage, handling & distribution costs be say only 50p per set then £75,000 had to be found!! At the moment it may be convenient to blame Holloid for non delivery but I would like some comment/reassurance on the whole issue of delivery of the sets. The basic question I would like to pose is, "Should a lorry full of sets arrive from Holloid tomorrow do we have storage, packing & distribution ready to go?" A further question, "Do we now have to wait for a suitable Director of the Project to be appointed and will he have to start from square one or is there a realistic struction in place?"

andrew martin

Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by andrew martin » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:35 am

I am sure that a joint ECF/Holloid Plastice press release will be published in due course,fully explaining the situation. Until that appears, all any of us can do is wait.

Please do not attack this post as insufficient; I assure you it is spot on.

Andrew

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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by Neill Cooper » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:54 am

Chris Majer wrote: Unfortunately, Holloid have had a problem with one of their moulds and this has delayed production.
The last our school heard about things was in August 2008 when we received a circular email to our headmaster from Gerry Walsh, presumably sent to the thousands of schools who had registered with the 'Chess Sets for Schools Project. In it we were told "Production of the sets is now in full swing and delivery is scheduled to commence in September/October 2008." Has production ever been 'in full swing'?

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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:19 am

Charles: I've disagreed with the approach of Professor Robertson in the past, and it's possible I do here too. Nevertheless, whether or not you think you're being got at, I think it would be generally appreciated if this didn't turn into a flamewar. I think the approach of Detective Sergeant Joe Friday would be the best one in the circumstances.
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Chris Majer
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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by Chris Majer » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:08 pm

Fair enough, Chris - up to a point. And thanks for the reply. But excuse the further questions.

Were Holloid present in person at the meeting yesterday? I understand they were not. If I'm right, who represented their position to the meeting? And did that person have the authority of Holloid to represent their position? Finally, do you believe the explanations you have been given by whoever is claiming to represent Holloid? And has the ECF reviewed its position on the 'Chess for Schools' project in case it has been led up the garden path?

David
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The meeting was between Julian van Wyngaarden (MD of Holloid) and the Gerry Walsh (ECF President). I trust that is satisfactory to you David.
Chris Majer
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Mick Norris
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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:23 pm

JustinHorton wrote:Charles: I've disagreed with the approach of Professor Robertson in the past, and it's possible I do here too. Nevertheless, whether or not you think you're being got at, I think it would be generally appreciated if this didn't turn into a flamewar. I think the approach of Detective Sergeant Joe Friday would be the best one in the circumstances.
Just the facts?

Not sure we're in the right place for that
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

David Robertson
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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by David Robertson » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:09 pm

Chris Majer wrote:The meeting was between Julian van Wyngaarden (MD of Holloid) and the Gerry Walsh (ECF President). I trust that is satisfactory to you David
"Satisfactory"? As ever, up to a point. There now appears to have been more than one meeting in the past few days involved in this, if I've got it right. The first, by CM's account, between the two named above; the second, an internal ECF working group to which Holloid was not party. I was only aware of the latter; hence, my earlier enquiries.

I find it an odd state of affairs that a reasonable enquiry by a member of the ECF on a matter of general concern should result in an unrestrained and abusive response from an ECF officer. At least the Acting CEO provides direct information, albeit of limited value.

I don't think members of ECF, including myself, press unreasonably when we seek clarification of matters when unsettling news breaks. Moreover, we're aware progress can't be reported to members as often as we might wish by the very nature of discussions ongoing. But our patience wears thin when we get no communication; when promises are made, but not kept; when peoples' goodwill is put at risk. ECF officers have opened up a trust gap with the membership; it's the officers' job to close it with timely and temperate communication.

So back to some questions. Is the ECF content that, in the wake of Christie's departure, the deal with Holloid remains secure? That is to say, is it a subject of contract; or does it stand as a 'grace-and-favour' arrangement? The distinction is important, I think. If the former, then members can plan ahead with a degree of confidence that Holloid will deliver the sets to the volume stated. If the latter, members will know where they stand: perhaps Holloid will deliver the sets, maybe some time, maybe not. But in this latter case, ECF will come under increasing pressure to justify its advanced publicity to MPs, schools & members; and to explain how & when this entire project will be delivered, or what abridgements now apply

David

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Re: Fergus Christie & Holloid Plastics - some news

Post by John Moore » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:01 pm

May I ask how many sets have been delivered - is it just the original photo opportunity 10. If there's a problem with the mould, fair enough - but when that was known was the time to put out something - just so that people knew.

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