Cheating in chess

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 10364
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:16 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:12 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:15 pm
You were not missing much.
Plausible hypotheses are that the player is manipulating their rating downwards
Nope, my game waa casual
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:12 pm

or has lent the account to someone not really able to play chess.
Nope, the games follow a pattern of coherent moves followed by quite deliberately putting pieces en prise
Last edited by JustinHorton on Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:28 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:16 am
Nope, the games follow a pattern of coherent moves followed by quite deliberately puting pieces wn prise
I think this is a player who is cheesed off, with chess or with life in general, and is messing about. He has wasted a bit of your time and you have the right to complain, but nothing sinister.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 10364
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:55 am

Yes, that was pretty much my conclusion too.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 5191
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:10 pm

So why bother "playing" at all then?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:49 am

Interesting post fron Jovan Petrovic. Perhaps when Ravi comes home ( not soon, I hope ), he will tell more about this.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 982&type=3
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Matthew Turner
Posts: 3600
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:58 am

Nick, the link doesn't seem to work or the info has been withdrawn. I'd be interested to know what it is/was

User avatar
John Upham
Posts: 7162
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by John Upham » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:08 am

Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:58 am
Nick, the link doesn't seem to work or the info has been withdrawn. I'd be interested to know what it is/was
I followed the link and found




217553133_10158579534352983_6018409437951434926_n.jpg
World Chess Cup X-Ray scanning. Where is he hiding the electronics?
217553133_10158579534352983_6018409437951434926_n.jpg (30.75 KiB) Viewed 1307 times
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Chris Rice
Posts: 3416
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:17 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:24 am

The 17 year old Polish girl, WFM Patrycja Waszczuk who got banned for two years for cheating had the ban overturned by The Arbitration Tribunal for Sport of the Polish Olympic Committee on a technicality. Well, perhaps. It appears that the fact that essentially she didn't get due process means the investigation will have to be done again so whether she will immediately be allowed to play again is not yet certain.

Mick Norris
Posts: 10310
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:58 am

The bit about her lawyer being rejected is an eye-opener
The reason for the federation to reject Dziubinski was that he himself was involved in a cheating scandal 14 years ago. However, he was never sentenced
Any postings on here represent my personal views

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:09 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:58 am
The bit about her lawyer being rejected is an eye-opener
The reason for the federation to reject Dziubinski was that he himself was involved in a cheating scandal 14 years ago. However, he was never sentenced
There is obviously personal stuff going on, and long memories.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21291
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:33 pm

Also from the link
Jedynak added: "I am much more concerned about another official statement from the Arbitration Tribunal for Sport of the Polish Olympic Committee, which declared that electronic doping in chess is not doping in sport. This statement shows an absolute lack of understanding of our discipline. This crucial point was presented as a decision​ without any hearing, possibility to protest, bring witnesses, or appeal. Arbiters considered cheating in chess as a rule violation, like a foul in football, not like a real threat to our sport."
It would appear that the Polish Olympic Committee had not been made aware that even taking a phone in a bag to a refreshment area with no action or intent to use it could be penalised with loss of the game which is a greater penalty than that for a foul in football.

The better Association football analogy would be that using a computer engine outside of ICCF chess is like picking up the ball and running with it or at the very least using hands to control it prior to kicking.

It's not uncommon for bans to be overthrown on technicalities. There was one around eight years ago.
viewtopic.php?t=5085&start=1095#p145931

Ian Thompson
Posts: 3543
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:54 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:33 pm
The better Association football analogy would be that using a computer engine outside of ICCF chess is like picking up the ball and running with it or at the very least using hands to control it prior to kicking.
Calling computer usage electronic doping is not very sensible in my opinion. It's just a form of cheating that's not fundamentally different to consulting books or another person during a game, other than the likely accuracy of the advice received.

If comparisons with cheating in other sports are to be made, better analogies might be:

Mick Norris
Posts: 10310
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:00 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:54 pm
[*]Cheating in cycling (also inappropriately referred to as "mechanical doping")[/list]
Yes it is irritating (especially as they might now have real doping again)

Back on topic, it will be interesting to see what the Poles do next
Any postings on here represent my personal views

User avatar
Joey Stewart
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:35 pm
Location: All Of Them
Contact:

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:24 pm

I think it is way worse then the sports analogy of doping - if I, for example, took a lot of performance enhancing drugs and tried to run in the Olympics I would still get left in the dust by legitimate runners as my base level is so far below them the supplements wouldn't be enough of a difference maker for me to overcome.
In chess, however, any idiot no matter how low their standard can recite engine moves and be instantly playing far above GM level.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Matt Bridgeman
Posts: 1077
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:21 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:50 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:24 pm
I think it is way worse then the sports analogy of doping - if I, for example, took a lot of performance enhancing drugs and tried to run in the Olympics I would still get left in the dust by legitimate runners as my base level is so far below them the supplements wouldn't be enough of a difference maker for me to overcome.
In chess, however, any idiot no matter how low their standard can recite engine moves and be instantly playing far above GM level.
On the flip side, there’s not a lot in the way in drug testing in chess. Are there late middle age Grandmasters out there taking the Tom Cruise (age: 59!) route, supplementing anti-ageing drugs such as testosterone, steroids and growth hormones? Substances that wouldn’t get you through a VADA test if chess is ever accepted into the Olympics.

Post Reply