Cheating in chess

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Roger Lancaster
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:43 pm

Sorry, to clarify, the CM title was bona fide FIDE-awarded, nothing to do with Lichess

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:06 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:42 pm
Roger, Matt . There are various scenarios.
MW may have made a sudden spurt in chess playing strength. That is quite common, he won't have played live for over a year.
We don't know why MW was flagged.
It may be a pseudonym. There may be two people both MW.
How does a player get a CM title online on Lichess?
ETC.
Stewart - There's no question of a pseudonym, as far as I can see, as MW was playing for a club of which he is a member. I am aware of MW's identity which I don't want to reveal here as it's always possible that he lodges a successful appeal with Lichess [although my views on Lichess' appeal procedures are well-known] or establishes his innocence by other means - although, from what I've seen, he faces an uphill task - but knowledge of his identity enabled me to check the FIDE website and ascertain that he was a CM of, very approximately, Igor Rausis's age. I'm not saying that rules out the "sudden spurt" theory but it makes it less likely.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:42 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:49 am
I find it sad to have to recount the following experience. One of our leading 8-year-olds was pleased to find, in a recent online club match, that he was due to play a Candidate Master - a good experience for him. He lost and initially thought nothing more of it. A couple of months later, the CM [whom I'll refer to here as "MW"] was flagged by Lichess for violating its terms and conditions. So the parent looked back and noted that, of MW's 23 online games, he had won 21 and drawn 2 - giving a ECF rating performance very much better than his ECF OTB rating. I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions but I'm trying to find an alternative explanation other than have to tell our youngsters that there are titled players around who will cheat even when playing small children. How disillusioning would that be and what sort of example would it set?
It is surely possible that, even if MW is indeed a cheat, he wasn't cheating in the game against your 8-year-old club member.

However, I would accept that that particular scenario is not particularly likely.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:22 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:42 pm
Roger Lancaster wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:49 am
I find it sad to have to recount the following experience. One of our leading 8-year-olds was pleased to find, in a recent online club match, that he was due to play a Candidate Master - a good experience for him. He lost and initially thought nothing more of it. A couple of months later, the CM [whom I'll refer to here as "MW"] was flagged by Lichess for violating its terms and conditions. So the parent looked back and noted that, of MW's 23 online games, he had won 21 and drawn 2 - giving a ECF rating performance very much better than his ECF OTB rating. I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions but I'm trying to find an alternative explanation other than have to tell our youngsters that there are titled players around who will cheat even when playing small children. How disillusioning would that be and what sort of example would it set?
It is surely possible that, even if MW is indeed a cheat, he wasn't cheating in the game against your 8-year-old club member.

However, I would accept that that particular scenario is not particularly likely.
Of course, David, but what's the most likely conclusion an intelligent 8-year-old would draw from the facts ?

Pete Heaven
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Pete Heaven » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:40 pm

I guess I know which CM Roger L is referring to although I make it four draws, not two, in his last 23 games, including a win against one of Roger's juniors. His draws tend to be against other players with terrific online records, some of whom have also been banned. If anyone is interested, his stats also include:-

- one blunder in his last 28 games and no errors or blunders in his last 11.
- 3 defeats in 55 online classical games, in two of which he was plus lots before mouseslipping. As an aside, when refused a takeback in
one of these two games, he proceeded to let his time run out from half an hour.
- A median centipawn score in these games of 18.
- I believe all his 58 classical games (there were three 'normal' games at the start) were in ECF/4NCL competitions. This is not a stat
as such but. if I'm wrong, I'm not far wrong.

He has successfully (until very recently) used the same account throughout the pandemic and his team has been one of the most successful across the past 15 months, also having had other players flagged by lichess.

Just a few numbers here, not proof of anything of course. His improvement from OTB chess hadn't extended to his online blitz though, it should be said.

Simon Rogers
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Simon Rogers » Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:42 am

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:43 am
1. Media comments on Chess is the longest with over 4300 posts.
2. The English Language with over 3300 posts in the Not Chess Category.
3. Cheating in Chess.

Out of curiosity I wondered who had posted the most.

memberlist.php?mode=&sk=d&sd=d#memberlist

Roger with 19,349 is 10,000+ more than 2nd,Alex Holowczak (9085) I'm way down the list at 2479 (now 2480) I'll have to catch up.
Happy Birthday Geoff. Hope you have a great day.
Good news is that I have overtaken Roger L and Joey S.
I now appear towards the bottom of the first page and not far behind Nick B.
Quite exciting.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:32 am

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:23 pm
Somebody did well, but the glory might be a bit fleeting;
http://chess-results.com/tnr561487.aspx?lan=1&art=4
It was, and not for the first time in a 4NCL event, if memory serves me correctly.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:45 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:32 am
not for the first time in a 4NCL event, if memory serves me correctly.
The "victory" of at least one previous high finisher was improbable based on age, rating and past performances. That didn't seem the case here although as the post from a couple of weeks ago shows, some were suspicions.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:33 pm

The winners list now published;
https://www.4ncl.co.uk/fide/online/winners_9.htm

The 5/5 finisher appears to have been zeroed out; http://chess-results.com/tnr561487.aspx ... =ENG&snr=1

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:02 pm

The result of a player 100ish points higher then the rest of the field coming first doesn't seem wholely unsurprising on paper - presumably the games themselves had some damning evidence of computer use?
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:06 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:02 pm
The result of a player 100ish points higher then the rest of the field coming first doesn't seem wholely unsurprising on paper - presumably the games themselves had some damning evidence of computer use?
It’s an Online Rating. Players seem to keep their rating performances prior to a ban. This player has had fair play violations previously when playing for White Rose in the Online 4NCL teams.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:07 pm

I was just treated to this waste of time: here are their previous six games.
Last edited by JustinHorton on Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Simon Rogers
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Simon Rogers » Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:07 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:07 pm
I was just treated to this waste of time: here are their previous six games.
Howdo Justin.
I've tried looking at the "are" game in your sentence and it says "404 Page Not Found!".

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:15 pm

Should be fixed now. You were not missing much.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:12 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:15 pm
You were not missing much.
Plausible hypotheses are that the player is manipulating their rating downwards, or has lent the account to someone not really able to play chess. Aren't both against the lichess terms and conditions and easier to detect than someone consulting an engine every few moves?

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