Cheating in chess

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:21 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:04 pm
The solution that the service providers recommend is - get a new account and sin no more.
As a consequence it's rare for them to be called out over false accusations. That enables them to claim a higher success rate for their methods than are deserved.

When OTB organisations migrate to on line competitions and insist on the real names behind handles being disclosed, the option of creating a new account becomes less viable because the evidence of a ban stays behind.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:25 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:04 pm

The reasons why some people manipulate their OTB and/or CC grades and ratings have been gone into previously on this forum.

Online ratings are subject to the same thing but are more visible and can be manipulated at a far faster rate than OTB & CC ones.

Returning to -

"Being accused of something when one is innocent is likely to be upsetting, to a major or minor degree, even for adults who can be expected to have had some prior experience of how the world works."

Who is being accused and what of?

Things have moved on since this thread began...

Anonymous accounts are being marked or closed for violations. (Apart from a few top players who has been caught doing them using an a/c under their real name?) Cheating is no longer the accusation.

The solution that the service providers recommend is - get a new account and sin no more.

What's the problem - injury to anonymous feelings?
John, Lichess changed their wording from a reference to "computer assistance" to "violation of our terms" shortly after the complaint to FIDE which I mentioned much earlier. I doubt that they would have done so otherwise. Although the new wording is less likely to be held as defamatory if tested, it's still interpreted by many as synonymous with computer-assisted cheating. Thus the new wording carries, only to a slightly lesser extent, the same stigma as before.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:06 pm

John Cox wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:33 pm
Can someone explain to me why anyone cares what someone's lichess rating is?
For the same reasons they may care what the FIDE or ECF or USCF or FEDA rating is, I guess
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:05 pm

Matt Fletcher points out that six months ago this guy lost 67 games in a row. Huge numbers in just a handful of moves. Many mated by ... Qh4 (or Qh5) after f3/g4 or f6/g5.

I particularly enjoyed the game where he tries to get mated this way and his opponent doesn't spot it and plays ... Nf6 so our friend Freddy has to resign.








Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:14 pm
From Perpetual Chess:-
"If somebody listening has some very smart idea about some work around where they could cheat and get away with it, it is overwhelmingly likely one of us has already thought of it and has already investigated the way to catch it"
The truth is, you don't have to be very smart.


This guy has been subject to multiple reports to Lichess. Here he is continuing to ply his trade 12 hours ago or so.











Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:26 pm

I don't really understand this, the player has zero tournament points, so why do we think he is choosing to lose so many games in a row?

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:38 pm

"Matt Fletcher points out that six months ago this guy lost 67 games in a row."

It could be a multiple user account.

A school teacher who has opened four or six accounts for his class to play chess each other with.
The class know all the passwords and off they go. The accounts just play each other all the time. No harm in that.

The problem being you may get a class 'Chandler' who decides to lower the ratings on all accounts just for the fun of it
so challenges out of the class players to drop loads of rating points. Then deny it and blame it on the class swot.
( or change all the passwords so nobody can play - again the class swot will be blamed.)

Low level cheats and sandbaggers should be ignored, they are not serious players, just bored kids
doing it for fun, a smoking behind the bike sheds type of thing. There might even a gang of them
seeing who can get away with it the longest and boasting about who has been banned the most.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:43 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:38 pm
"Matt Fletcher points out that six months ago this guy lost 67 games in a row."

It could be a multiple user account.
One who resigns after a few moves;
One who plays normally for a while then deliberately loses all his/her pieces as quickly as possible;
One who doesn't know any caro kann theory;
One who has to think on move two and three but suddenly knows a dozen moves which just happen to perfectly match the lichess book top choice on each turn.
One how plays normally;

Yes, that's entirely plausible.



I suppose there could be several dozen people using that account. That would explain the many many times he loses games to P-KB3/P-KN4 ... QR5 mate. They must be taken turns pretty quickly though. You'd have thought maybe one would mention it to the others.


But of course this discussion is entirely irrelevant to the question of why the account remains open.

Matt Fletcher
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Fletcher » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:48 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:26 pm
I don't really understand this, the player has zero tournament points, so why do we think he is choosing to lose so many games in a row?
Hard to understand quite what he’s doing and why, but losing 67 in a row, mostly in 4 or 5 moves, is a) pretty clear evidence that this is what he’s doing and b) very clearly against lichess terms.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:54 pm

Matt Fletcher wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:48 pm
Matthew Turner wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:26 pm
I don't really understand this, the player has zero tournament points, so why do we think he is choosing to lose so many games in a row?
Hard to understand quite what he’s doing and why, but losing 67 in a row, mostly in 4 or 5 moves, is a) pretty clear evidence that this is what he’s doing and b) very clearly against lichess terms.

Dealing with bellends' behaviour is pretty much the definition of my professional life. I've long since given up wasting time pondering the question of why bellends act like bellends.

Bellends are as bellends do.


But since we're asking, I don't see this guy's behaviour as more bizarre as those folks who cheat to win an online tournament that in the scheme of things means as close to nothing at all to anybody as makes no odds.

PeterFinn
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by PeterFinn » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:59 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:26 pm
I don't really understand this, the player has zero tournament points, so why do we think he is choosing to lose so many games in a row?
My suspicion is that this user has been deliberately losing games in order to get back to the 1500 starting rating in order to do a speedrun back up to his usual rating. He has got back down to 1500 twice only to quickly start winning again back up to his usual standard.

The concept of a chess speedrun has been popularised by the likes of Nakamura where he played games against users on chess.com all the way from the starting rating of 1200 up to 3000.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:05 pm

PeterFinn wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:59 pm
[quote="Matthew Turner" post_id=263695 time=<a href="tel:1618075567">1618075567</a> user_id=572]
I don't really understand this, the player has zero tournament points, so why do we think he is choosing to lose so many games in a row?
My suspicion is that this user has been deliberately losing games in order to get back to the 1500 starting rating in order to do a speedrun back up to his usual rating. He has got back down to 1500 twice only to quickly start winning again back up to his usual standard.

The concept of a chess speedrun has been popularised by the likes of Nakamura where he played games against users on chess.com all the way from the starting rating of 1200 up to 3000.
[/quote]

Peter,
Many thanks for this, that makes perfect sense. I hadn't come across this concept before.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:13 pm

Maybe they have hacked into the class swots account and wants to embarrass them.

'... this is what he’s doing.' It could a 'her.'

Hi Joanathan,

"But of course this discussion is entirely irrelevant to the question of why the account remains open."

Maybe they have in the past but they keep coming back, so the thinking is hopefully they will get bored.

If they are doing what Peter suggests does it really matter.
Think of the joy he spreading about by giving people 5 move wins.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:22 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:13 pm
If they are doing what Peter suggests does it really matter.
Think of the joy he spreading about by giving people 5 move wins.
If playing on line for some semi-serious practice or self training, it adds another category of time wasting opponent. You already have the non-resigners and those who let their time run out instead of finding "resigns". At least those who resign or concede after next to no moves don't waste too much of your time.

Is there a good reason for chess.com not to allow multiple accounts for the same person? That would leave anyone wanting to indulge in this petty variant free to do so.

Matt Fletcher
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Fletcher » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:28 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:13 pm

'... this is what he’s doing.' It could a 'her.'
Fair enough, I’d usually try to use they (though given the user name I suspect it’s a ‘he’)
Geoff Chandler wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:13 pm
If they are doing what Peter suggests does it really matter.
Think of the joy he spreading about by giving people 5 move wins.
It is pretty clear that it’s against the lichess terms of use.

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Ian Thompson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:31 pm

PeterFinn wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:59 pm
My suspicion is that this user has been deliberately losing games in order to get back to the 1500 starting rating in order to do a speedrun back up to his usual rating. He has got back down to 1500 twice only to quickly start winning again back up to his usual standard.

The concept of a chess speedrun has been popularised by the likes of Nakamura where he played games against users on chess.com all the way from the starting rating of 1200 up to 3000.
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to open a new account if all you want is a 1500 rating?

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