Cheating in chess

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Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:47 am

I have re-read the FIDE statement a few times this morning and this sentence really stands out

"Therefore, we as FIDE will be putting our maximum effort into improving our regulations, setting clear control procedures and continuously strengthening the practices and proficiency of Fair play panels of the tournaments."

In Wadih's football parlance that seem fairly clear to me, we need to update the offside rule and the linesman will be focusing on lower league fixtures for the time being.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:51 am

"Therefore, we as FIDE will be putting our maximum effort into improving our regulations, setting clear control procedures and continuously strengthening the practices and proficiency of Fair play panels of the tournaments."

That reads like management buzzword bingo, "Procedures are in place to maintain our policy of continuous improvement." In other words, "We might do something, but we are not sure what, or whether it will work, and in any event, we are not going to tell anybody what it is."

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:31 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:51 am
"Therefore, we as FIDE will be putting our maximum effort into improving our regulations, setting clear control procedures and continuously strengthening the practices and proficiency of Fair play panels of the tournaments."

That reads like management buzzword bingo, "Procedures are in place to maintain our policy of continuous improvement." In other words, "We might do something, but we are not sure what, or whether it will work, and in any event, we are not going to tell anybody what it is."
I am not sure this is quite correct, if was a case of "blah, blah, nothing to see here", you say

"Improving our processes and procedures" Not "Improving our regulations"

"Continuing training and professional development for fair play panel members" Not "Strengthening proficiency of Fair play panels"

Maybe I am being overly pedantic and possibly things are lost in translation, but I think there is a significant difference.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:40 am

Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:47 am
In Wadih's football parlance that seem fairly clear to me, we need to update the offside rule and the linesman will be focusing on lower league fixtures for the time being.

isn't the problem that they are trying to play and formulate rules for playing in the absence of referee and linesman?

A relevant Law of chess is
11.3.1
During play the players are forbidden to use any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard.
There's no particular problem enforcing this in OTB play, it's when there are no physical witnesses that it's problematic, particularly when the device used for playing the game can also be used as a source of information.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:50 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:40 am
Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:47 am
In Wadih's football parlance that seem fairly clear to me, we need to update the offside rule and the linesman will be focusing on lower league fixtures for the time being.

isn't the problem that they are trying to play and formulate rules for playing in the absence of referee and linesman?

A relevant Law of chess is
11.3.1
During play the players are forbidden to use any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard.
There's no particular problem enforcing this in OTB play, it's when there are no physical witnesses that it's problematic, particularly when the device used for playing the game can also be used as a source of information.
Roger,
The event we are discussing had both zoom and screen sharing, so your comments don't really seem to make any sense.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:02 am

Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:50 am

The event we are discussing had both zoom and screen sharing, so your comments don't really seem to make any sense.
Did these methods reliably detect external consultation? I rather thought the accusations were based on the results of "computer says you aren't good enough to play the moves made" with evidence from zoom and screen sharing inconclusive.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:21 am

Roger,
If you are interested in the case you could find out about it here
https://www.chess.com/news/view/fide-wo ... ulia-osmak

Quoting from this source we have

"Osmak speculated that the decision perhaps was related to the fact that in one game she forgot to unmute her mic during the first few moves. Another detail that might have raised suspicion was that she had looked away from her screen a few times during games, for which she has an explanation: the limited vision of one eye, which provides for just 16 percent of normal vision.

"In cases when I'm nervous, I have to not focus on the board and try to rest my eyes and look to the side," Osmak said."

Ian Thompson
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Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:24 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:02 am
Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:50 am

The event we are discussing had both zoom and screen sharing, so your comments don't really seem to make any sense.
Did these methods reliably detect external consultation? I rather thought the accusations were based on the results of "computer says you aren't good enough to play the moves made" with evidence from zoom and screen sharing inconclusive.
I thought there was no evidence that the winner played unusually well compared to her normal standard of play. The disqualification occurred because of suspicious behaviour on Zoom, but with no proof that cheating occurred. The decision was that when she looked away from the computer screen frequently during games it was more likely than not that she was getting external assistance.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:41 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:24 am
The decision was that when she looked away from the computer screen frequently during games it was more likely than not that she was getting external assistance.
That's a feeble accusation in the absence of any supposed abnormalities in her play. You might as well disqualify ceiling starers like Ivanchuk. But if looking at the computer screen continuously is a competition requirement, it should have been declared at outset.

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:47 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:41 am
But if looking at the computer screen continuously is a competition requirement, it should have been declared at outset.
I think that would fall under "revealing their secrets".
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 05, 2021 5:17 pm

A film made about cheating at Bridge. That's not computer consultation, illegal signalling between partners apparently.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ocumentary

Simon Rogers
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Simon Rogers » Thu May 06, 2021 5:09 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:36 pm
Hi SImon,

I'm going to use a computer to do my post for me, 20 a day in various threads.
They will have to create an algorithm to catch me.
Hi Geoff.
Posting 20 a day will still take you a number of decades before you catch up with Roger De C.
What's the latest scores for posting. I thought you might have updated us a few days ago.
I think I am still 30 behind Roger L and lying second in the championship with Roger De C top of the Premier League.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Geoff Chandler » Thu May 06, 2021 6:42 pm

Hi Simon,

I have, or my computer has, been posting 20-30 times a day on the ECF forum.
Unfortunately I was not specific enough in my instructions and it has been posting on the 'European Cyclists' Federation' site:

"I do not like the grading system."

So far thousands of replies asking me how should we grade hills and what type of bike do I ride.

Nick Grey
Posts: 1838
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Nick Grey » Thu May 06, 2021 9:32 pm

I think we are non-league to Roger. Must be weeks since last Chess Cheating incident.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Thu May 06, 2021 11:17 pm

Simon Rogers wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 5:09 pm
Geoff Chandler wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:36 pm
Hi SImon,

I'm going to use a computer to do my post for me, 20 a day in various threads.
They will have to create an algorithm to catch me.
Hi Geoff.
Posting 20 a day will still take you a number of decades before you catch up with Roger De C.
What's the latest scores for posting. I thought you might have updated us a few days ago.
I think I am still 30 behind Roger L and lying second in the championship with Roger De C top of the Premier League.
This is way off topic but, for the record, I'll point out that my posts have accumulated at a fairly sedate rate over six years whereas Simon has amassed almost as many in little more than 12 months. Or, put slightly differently, Simon posts at roughly six times my rate. In fact, at a rate of over 1,000 posts per annum, Simon's contribution rate is exceeded only by the one person whose name appears most frequently in this context.

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