Chess on TV

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Dave Ewart
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Re: Chess on TV

Post by Dave Ewart » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:04 pm

The Checkmate TV Show thing is now on Amazon Prime: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Round-1/dp/B079165X12/ --- it's nothing special, soundtrack appears to be lacking somewhat. To quote my own review:

"Having heard about this programme some time ago I was looking forward to it greatly. It was much more basic chess-wise than I was expecting. I can't see how you can include "how the pieces move" in the same programme as "listening to how grandmasters think"! No chess player can possibly benefit from both. That said, from my point of view as an experienced player it was still interesting to watch the 'grandmaster thinking' segments, shame the latter rounds were rather rushed.

Also on a purely technical note: is the music soundtrack missing? There's no music during the intro, and later parts seems to have been intended to have musical overlays; it seems unfinished."

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Chess on TV

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:50 pm

A 1984 "Tales of the Unexpected" and "The Best Chess Player in the World" was recently on. (again)
It has been mentioned before in this thread. This is a screen shot.

Image

and this is the position, fxe6 and Bxd6 is mate.



I wondered if it had come from an actual game (possibly QR odds) database scans revealed nothing.
Even just the bare bones of the position Kf8, Re8, Be7 and a WB on h7 gave very little away to hint
it might have been a missed combo or a re-jigged position one from an actual game.
(if you do a D.B. search remember to stop at 1984, on my first search I merrily let it run up to 2021 - OOPS!)

It may be from a puzzle book, I have 6000+ positions from various puzzle books in another D.B. but again no joy.
One or two popped with the bones (see above) but nothing close to what happened.

Yet I'm sure I've seen it before. I am now thinking maybe I've seen it in a previous chess mag
asking the very same question I'm asking now. Has anybody got a clue where it came from or is
it well done to the T.V. crew for getting the board round the right way and showing a neat checkmate.

You can watch the whole episode on YouTupe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7wfwTozy9A

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Chess on TV

Post by Stewart Reuben » Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:54 am

This is incredibly strange. I just watched that 'Best Chess Player in the World' from Tales of the Unexpected for the first time since it was first shown.
You see, I was the chess advisor for that episode and attended just the first rehearsal. You teach the people to set up the board with white square on the right. Also how to move the pieces and press the clock.
BUT I have no memory of that combination just above. I would not have had the skill to design such a combination on the spot. I do not remember seeing it when I watched the first time, but could have forgotten. Perhaps they hired somebody in addition to me? I continued watching.
BUT about halfway through there is another chess combination that the madman, who thinks he is the Best chess player in the world, keeps doodling back and forth with about halfway through the game. It is from a game I played as an 18 year old and I provided it for the director.
Sorry, I have never learnt how to put it on the site.
Peter Byre (Westminster City School) v Stewart Reuben (William Ellis School) London Schools League 1957. I was 18. From memory
1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Bb4 4 e3 0-0 5 a3 Bxc3+ 6 bxc3 c5 7 Nf3 b6 8 Bd3 Bb7 9 0-0 Ne4 10 Qc2 f5 11 Rb1 g5 12 a4 g4 13 Ne5 Qh4 14 Nxg4 fxg4
15 g3 Ng5 16 resigns.
A few months after the game, Unzicker played Botvinik. They followed my game until the real World Champion played 11...d6.
I also used that game for a touring production of 'Chess the Musical'.
I remember Andrew Ray being in the BCITW. I also remember pointing out it was illogical to telephone a call box and expect the person you are contacting to respond. The director just shrugged his shoulders. 'Nobody notices such fine details'.
BUT that snazzy combination remains a mystery.
Remember, this is all from my memory of 37 years ago.

NigelDonovan
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Re: Chess on TV

Post by NigelDonovan » Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:29 am

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:50 pm


Where has the knight just come from? c5 or g5. g5 seems more likely. This could have been the position two moves ago.


Geoff Chandler
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Re: Chess on TV

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:03 am

Hi Stewart,

Your game PGN'd.

Peter Byre (Westminster City School) v Stewart Reuben (William Ellis School) London Schools League 1957.


Fascinating that you were the advisor, I did check the credits to see if a chess player was mentioned but nothing.

Hi Nigel,

Yes this was possibly the previous position.



Black played 1...h6. (Black cannot take twice on g5 as the e8 Rook hangs.) 2.Bh7+ Kf8 3.Ne6+
The Knight could have come from e4-g5 then Black played h6? (which hints at a bad move played for effect.)

It looks composed but could be a re-jigged position from an actual game.
Reinfeld was good at this, tampering with positions to create puzzles. (it may be one of his from another book.)

No. 774 in this;

Image

Has this position. (White to play and win)



It is a juggled position from Marshall - Capablanca New York 1909 (game 5) where White actually lost.



It can be good fun trying to spot which game some of the puzzles have been rejigged from.
Or you can make up your own. From the same Marshall - Capablanca game (this position arose Black to play)



Put the h4 pawn back on h2 and with Black to play it's mate in 5.

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John Saunders
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Re: Chess on TV

Post by John Saunders » Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:29 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:54 am
It is from a game I played as an 18 year old and I provided it for the director.
Sorry, I have never learnt how to put it on the site.
Peter Byre (Westminster City School) v Stewart Reuben (William Ellis School) London Schools League 1957. I was 18. From memory
1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Bb4 4 e3 0-0 5 a3 Bxc3+ 6 bxc3 c5 7 Nf3 b6 8 Bd3 Bb7 9 0-0 Ne4 10 Qc2 f5 11 Rb1 g5 12 a4 g4 13 Ne5 Qh4 14 Nxg4 fxg4
15 g3 Ng5 16 resigns.
A few months after the game, Unzicker played Botvinik. They followed my game until the real World Champion played 11...d6.
I also used that game for a touring production of 'Chess the Musical'.
It couldn't have been Unzicker-Botvinnik (no such game matches) but Uhlmann-Botvinnik does, at least very nearly...



The two games in fact diverge at move 5 and never quite converge again but nearly do so after White's 11th move where Stewart's opponent's a-pawn was on a3 and Uhlmann's a-pawn was on a4. Maybe Stewart's memory is slightly at fault here and his schoolboy opponent followed Uhlmann's opening sequence? For the sake of argument, let's assume that the early moves were as per Uhlmann-Botvinnik and then the divergence might have occurred at move 11 where Botvinnik plays the pusillanimous 11...Qc7 and Stewart chooses the altogether more red-blooded 11...g5. (Incidentally, Stockfish 13 didn't go for either of these moves. But every British schoolboy knows what to play in such a position.) I'm not entirely sure I see what the Westminster guy was trying to achieve with his Nxg4 move. One suspects that he would not have played it unless goaded to do so by a ...d6 move.
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Stewart Reuben
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Re: Chess on TV

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:00 am

I think I can be excused for remembering Unzicker rather than Uhlmann after so many years. But my game definitely preceded Botvinnik's.
Of course, I was joking about Mikhail following my game which came first by about a year.
13 Ne5 surprised me, then I realised 13...d6 14 Nxg4 was intended. I continued my attack with 13... Qh4. Again he surprised me with 14 Nxg4. But then I realised 14...Qxg4 15 f3 would be good. Thus 14...fxg4. 15 Bxe4 g3 gives Black the better endgame. After 15 g3 it took me 10 minutes to realise 15...Ng4 won. That was I was entranced with the idea of 15...Nxf2 but that doesn't win. He plays 16 Rxf2. AFTER i played 15...Ng4 my opponent thought very briefly and resigned. The Westminster City Boy on board 2, said, ;I wondered when you would see Ng4.

And following another thread, I definitely scored in algebraic by then. Bobby Fischer used Descriptive when writing moves when I knew him in the 1960s. But, when conversing, he used algebraic.

John McKenna

Re: Chess on TV

Post by John McKenna » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:23 pm

NigelDonovan wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:29 am
Geoff Chandler wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:50 pm


Where has the knight just come from? c5 or g5. g5 seems more likely. This could have been the position two moves ago.

As Geoff said, further above, we'd better assume that White gave odds of QR. (Otherwise that rook has to be given away for nothing during the game, which is both unexpected and unlikely.)

The main difficulty in reaching the position Nigel D gives is that B has to lose a number of tempi and a pawn like in this example -



It therefore seems more likely that the position in the TV series came from an an old odds game.

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Re: Chess on TV

Post by NigelDonovan » Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:16 pm

But if you don't think this position occurred (or something similar, the Bd3 could be on another square)



then how do you think they came to the final position?

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Re: Chess on TV

Post by Geoff Chandler » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:17 pm

That is a good piece of retro work John. It will be close to the game (if indeed it came from a game.)

In the T.V. clip you do not see where the Bishop came from, Bd3 is a good bet
but you you need some illogical play from Black to set it up.

It is the a3 and b4 pawns which are annoying. I'm wondering if we can dispense with those,
(as well as the a1 Rook) thinking perhaps the TV crew moved them there for effect or a mistaken
copyright law like they did in 'From Russia with Love.'

John McKenna

Re: Chess on TV

Post by John McKenna » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:37 pm

I think the white pieces must almost certainly have been in the position you gave, Nigel. It is how the black pieces managed to get where they are in that position that I am not so sure about.

One thing seems certain - if White really started with a full set and subsequently went a rook down he cannot claim to be "the best... "

Geoff, thanks for your explanation (I've not seen the episode) but in your screenshot the 2 captured black pawns and N can be seen to the right of the clock. Does that indicate that a chess adviser played through a game score and put them where you might expect, perhaps? No sign of the missing mysterious white rook, or the captured white N & pawn, though.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Chess on TV

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:07 am

Even if it is a composition, does it really matter? Its not such a bad one.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

John McKenna

Re: Chess on TV

Post by John McKenna » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:36 am

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:07 am
Even if it is a composition, does it really matter? Its not such a bad one.
Just naturally curious, Matt, as to how the board came to be on the TV like that and how the position came to be on the board. Who knows, something might jog Stewart R's incipient memories...

Matthew Turner
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Re: Chess on TV

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:09 am

I suspect the original position had a Rook on a1 and a pawn on b6. The White rook was removed either because it was in the way of a camera shot or to make the position more spectacular, white being material down.
Having removed a White piece, a Black piece had to go too and b6 is pretty much the only piece that can go without changing the position.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Chess on TV

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:18 am

The most likely reason for there being no Ra1 is carelessness.
One of the times I saw the original production of Chess, the Musical, I noticed several pieces were missing from the set after the interval. Bill Hartston was the chess advisor, so I asked him what had happened. He told me when the actor stormed off at the end of the first act, he always threw the pieces on the floor. They couldn't find all of the during the interval. So they played the game with an incomplete set.

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