NCCU and the MCF

[Roger de Coverly]

Roger would like me to organise a coup against him.

Without it, how will the Lancs v GMCCA dispute ever be resolved?

Someone has to tell the Lancashire officials that thirty nine years and counting is enough. They've made their point about the slightly dubious circumstances surrounding the creation of the GMCCA, but perpetuating for ever a dispute about eligibility to play in between two and four matches a season goes too far.

[MartinCarpenter]

Thing is, he does have a point. I've not got any experience of the Lancashire leagues but their county teams have certainly seemed very well organised whenever I've met them, so I can certainly believe they run well too.

Chess organisers of any sort are so rare that throwing one/two away for one piece of behaviour, no matter how idiotic, isn't the sort of thing you do lightly.

[Roger de Coverly]

Chess organisers of any sort are so rare that throwing one/two away for one piece of behaviour, no matter how idiotic, isn't the sort of thing you do lightly.

I don't think it's any more than turning up at a Lancashire AGM with a motion and enough supporters to vote through the proposition that Lancashire drop its opposition to GMCCA's membership of the NCCU. That might require a volunteer or two willing to attend the NCCU meetings if the existing representatives felt unable to accept the new position. I'm not sure the hostility is that deep-seated as it's recorded that Lancashire home matches take place in Greater Manchester.

[MartinCarpenter]

Heywood is sort of a border outpost between GM and Lancs

Not even sure how many care, amongst those attending. As noted above their treasurer plays for the Manchester 4NCL team that Mick captains I'd suspect only a few actually care, but those that do do so strongly enough to get their way.

[Mick Norris]

Heywood is sort of a border outpost between GM and Lancs

Not even sure how many care, amongst those attending. As noted above their treasurer plays for the Manchester 4NCL team that Mick captains I'd suspect only a few actually care, but those that do do so strongly enough to get their way.

I have never captained the Manticores, and I hope I never do

Our new captain is a Lancs player, and he has recruited 4 Lancs players to join the Treasurer and 3 or 4 other Lancs players in the squad

Bill O'Rourke offered, in exchange for destroying our county teams, to help get Lancs players in the 4NCL squad

[David Robertson]

Someone has to tell the Lancashire officials that thirty nine years and counting is enough

It goes back much further than this, you know - to the end of the last Ice Age in fact.

As the ice retreated about 12,000 years ago, and before the melting ice raised sea levels, small groups of people crossed from 'mainland' Europe. They settled largely in the south of England. But a few groups settled sparsely in Lancashire where they became isolated from the rest of the country by the rapid forestisation of the Cheshire plain. For nearly 10,000 years, this small community only had itself for company.

We see the results today in the Minutes of the NCCU.

[Alan Walton]

I was born after the original split so I don't know the details of the original complaints (born in 1975, in Oldham)

Whilst growing up Greater Manchester juniors were well aware what was going on and one of our aims was to beat Lancashire at all costs

I am a northerner so I expect to be playing in the NCCU, I could play for Lancashire but decided to play for Yorkshire (I have to admit I will never consider playing for Lancashire)

I appreciate the efforts of YCA to try and integrate Manchester into the NCCU, but Lancashire just don't want it to happen in any circumstances, whatever the compromises are

Most of the current Manchester players (including all of 3Cs) will never play for Lancashire, and view the argument as childish, but if Lancashire want to keep blocking it then so be it

Personally I think they are scared of a Manchester team full of 3Cs players and the rest of the very good players around Manchester will mean they will finish 3rd in the NCCU and in the future will never qualify for the final stages

[Roger de Coverly]

Personally I think they are scared of a Manchester team full of 3Cs players and the rest of the very good players around Manchester will mean they will finish 3rd in the NCCU and in the future will never qualify for the final stages

It wasn't 3Cs in 1975 but being deprived of their perceived birthright to qualify for the National Stages did seem to have something to do with the opposition to the creation of the GMCCA. Evidently Merseyside, which was created at around the same time without objections must have handled the politics or personal relationships better as a Merseyside county team based around an Atticus core also performed well.

[David Robertson]

I was born after the original split so I don't know the details of the original complaints (born in 1975, in Oldham)

Believe me.

You were the reason

[David Robertson]

Evidently Merseyside, which was created at around the same time without objections, must have handled the politics or personal relationships better

Blame me for this. My ability to command the confidence of dolts is universally admired.

[Michael Flatt]

Can I take it that nobody has read Dale Carnegie's book?

[MartinCarpenter]

I have never captained the Manticores, and I hope I never do

Our new captain is a Lancs player, and he has recruited 4 Lancs players to join the Treasurer and 3 or 4 other Lancs players in the squad

Bill O'Rourke offered, in exchange for destroying our county teams, to help get Lancs players in the 4NCL squad

Well done on avoiding being captain

A genuinely amazingly specific sort of hang up they've got isn't it? Entirely happy to play in the Manchester league, for a Manchester team in the 4NCL etc....

Not at all sure if Lancs would be doomed to third. They're very strong over 12 boards still - +-200 vs Yorkshire this year. A bit softer in the K/O stages/16 boards. Where their next generation of players is coming from might be another matter, but suspect county chess might well be rather dead by the time that's a real worry.

[Graham Borrowdale]

Not at all sure if Lancs would be doomed to third. They're very strong over 12 boards still - +-200 vs Yorkshire this year. A bit softer in the K/O stages/16 boards. Where their next generation of players is coming from might be another matter, but suspect county chess might well be rather dead by the time that's a real worry.

I am not sure whether you are referring to county chess in 'the north' being dead by whenever, but in other parts of the country it seems to be doing quite well. From what I can see there is competition for places in the first teams in places like Middlesex and Surrey (in other words people want to play and do not have to be cajoled), and even in the EACU, county days are well-attended, although the teams do seem to get older each year.

[MartinCarpenter]

I was allowing several decades to elapse

If Lancashire did drop off being able to field a competitive (~195+) 16 man open county team - which I'm not in a great position to judge except that they're clearly worried about it - and dropped to a minor county or something, then I'm not entirely sure what Yorkshire would do. Might produce an all SCCU open competition, which would look a bit silly.
(One nice thing about the Yorkshire team in the semi final was that about half of it was <40 and a good chunk somewhat younger than that. Plenty of pseudo juniors not playing too.).

[IM Jack Rudd]

Yorkshire would no doubt do what Somerset did in the season before the one just gone: play all the WECU fixtures with no pretence that they are any sort of qualifier for anything, and then go through as WECU's representative in the Open. (As it happens, we were WECU champions anyway that year.)