English Chess Forum

There was an interesting rule change made at tonight's London League AGM.

From next season games played at Athenaeum's home venue, the default will be 36 moves in 90 minutes then a 15 minute quickplay finish. Opposition Captains (not individual players) can insist beforehand that matches can be played at the old quickplay rate of 30 moves in 75 minutes followed by 15 minutes quickplay, or the standard 36 moves in 90 minutes with adjournments.

Actually I thought making different rules for one club was dangerous and that it would never be passed, but as it happens the vote was tied. The Chairman, who by convention usually votes to maintain the status quo, decided to ignore the custom and voted for the amendment. So the new rule was passed.

So next season, but only for games at Endell Street, games will default to 3½ hour sessions. There'll be plenty of players (including me) who don't like the shorter version with a quickplay finish who'll welcome this change, but there'll be others (that was clear from the questions being asked) who'll be very, very, confused!

I understand the sentiment of many of the captains who voted against this change. I presumed a lot of these feelings came from not a small minority who believe that the time controls in the London League should be the same across all venues. While I agree with this, I thought of several points:

- Standardising the time controls for all venues wasn't on the agenda this evening so something to be discussed in future years perhaps,
- The different time control (3.5 hour sessions) for Athenaeum games has been around for a decade or so I hear, and I suppose there was a reason for this (I was probably the youngest at the AGM and wasn't around for any of this),
- Some people seemed to quite like the idea of the slightly longer time control there because of the longer control reducing the number of adjournments and some even enjoying the "long quickplay" (i.e. the extended 3.5 hour quickplay) as an opportunity to play better chess.

For these reasons I voted for. I think it would be a good rule change on the condition that captains take the time to explain it clearly to their players before matches, and will hopefully result in what I can see as happy games for all at the Athenaeum venue.

I am appalled by all those who voted for this particular rule. Athenaeum don't need this rule, do they - can other Clubs now ask for special rules which their members would quite like? It is made all the worse that individual players cannot object, only whole teams.

Athenaeum will benefit unfairly from this. They happen all to want the longer limit, I assume, but most of their opponents will be split, and one side or the other may no longer play in matches against Athenaeum - who have the further advantage of being so central that they play virtually all amtches at home!

I for example live outside London and will not be able to play the longer time limit. I imagine that some of my team mates might prefer the longer limit. Suppose that this is right and that they prevail (because the captain's first priority is to raise a full team) - then the upshot will be that a strong 200+ player who has a massive personal score against Athenaeum will no longer be able to play against them. Nice, for them!

The existing rule, according to http://www.lcl.streamlinenettrial.co.uk/rop.htm , began

6(a) The playing session for all matches played at the Athenaeum at 36 Endell Street, WC2 shall be three hours and thirty minutes, starting at 6.45 pm. with a time control of thirtysix moves in ninety minutes and the game shall be adjourned if unfinished at the end of the session. If opposing players in a game agree prior to the completion of white's second move the time control for that game shall be thirtysix moves in ninety minutes followed by a fifteen minute quickplay finish.

David Gilbert wrote:From next season games played at Athenaeum's home venue, the default will be 36 moves in 90 minutes then a 15 minute quickplay finish. Opposition Captains (not individual players) can insist beforehand that matches can be played at the old quickplay rate of 30 moves in 75 minutes followed by 15 minutes quickplay, or the standard 36 moves in 90 minutes with adjournments.

I very much doubt that David Gilbert has accurately reprised the motion that was passed. The old session was also for three and a half hours.

The change seems to be that adjournments have been given the order of the boot, save when an opposing captain objects in good time. Not being present, I can't be certain.

Jonathan Rogers wrote:I for example live outside London and will not be able to play the longer time limit.

I'll depute to Jonathan the task of reporting the presence of his doppelgänger to the league secretary.
From
http://www.lcl.streamlinenettrial.co.uk/137.htm

Match No 137 Mon 14/12/09 Division 1 ATH
ATHENAEUM 2 ILFORD
1 D Farkas 177 0 1 J Rogers 202

The playing session was for three and a half hours. Incidentally, the session ends just fifteen minutes later than at Golden Lane. For Endell Street matches start at 6:45pm, whilst for Golden Lane it is 7pm.

Make me chaste, O Lord, but not yet.

Can we at least be clear about the rule change? There was enough confusion yesterday without adding to it here.

Prior to yesterday's meeting, the time control rules were as follows:
Normal format: 36 moves in 90 minutes then adjourn.
One session format: 30 moves in 75 minutes plus 15 minute quickplay finish, except at Athenaeum, where it was 36 moves in 90 minutes followed by a 15 minute quickplay finish.

The following default time controls applied (that is, if one player prefers it they can insist on it):
Division 1 odd board: One session format
Division 1 even boards and Division 2 and below: Normal format.

The rule change is specifically for the one session format at Athenaeum, where the visiting captain, at the exchange of team lists, can say that certain specified boards, if they play a one session format, will be 30/75+15, like everywhere else. Clearly, this requires communication between the visiting captain and their team members as to their preference, if they end up playing quickplay, to play three hours or three and a half hours. The rule change has no bearing on whether a specific board is normal format or one session format.

I agree that there is certainly a lot of scope for confusion, as was demonstrated last night, but that's not a reason to throw out the rule.

Richard Thursby wrote:Can we at least be clear about the rule change? There was enough confusion yesterday without adding to it here.

Then why have you lumbered us with your incorrect understanding of the previous rule? Hint: any one who adjourned before the end of the playing session would lose time on the clock to bring the length of the session at Athenaeum to three and a half hours. Read the first sentence of the rule.

Regrettably the glaikit folk are always with us, many attendees at meetings haven't the foggiest notion of what was discussed. Hence it would be better to accurately quote the motion that was passed. Failing which, the new rule will appear on the London League website in due course.

Ok, thanks for your clarification, Simon. It sounds as though the playing session has not been extended from last year after all, which I had mistakenly understood to be the case.

If in fact the only consequence is to do away with adjournments, then I actually praise those who supported the motion (assuming that they knew what they were doing!)

Simon Spivack wrote:

Richard Thursby wrote:Can we at least be clear about the rule change? There was enough confusion yesterday without adding to it here.

Then why have you lumbered us with your incorrect understanding of the previous rule? Hint: any one who adjourned before the end of the playing session would lose time on the clock to bring the length of the session at Athenaeum to three and a half hours. Read the first sentence of the rule.

Quite right. I always found that rule rather strange not to have the time control at the end of the playing session.

Simon Spivack wrote:Regrettably the glaikit folk are always with us, many attendees at meetings haven't the foggiest notion of what was discussed. Hence it would be better to accurately quote the motion that was passed. Failing which, the new rule will appear on the London League website in due course.

Notwithstanding my ignorance of Scots (I think?), the rule passed is as follows:

"Rules of Play 6a For matches played at Athenaeum, 36 Endell Street, WC2, the following additional provision shall apply:

The One Session format at this venue shall be 36 moves in 90 minutes plus 15 minute Quickplay Finish, unless the visiting Match Captain notifies the home Match Captain, when team lists are exchanged, that on specified board(s) in that match the standard One Session format, as defined in Rule 5 above, shall apply. Starting time for all games shall be 6.45pm. Time in Normal Format games shall be called at 9.50pm."

Richard Thursby wrote:... strange not to have the time control at the end of the playing session.

This is no different to a situation when one player has reached the time control having banged out all his moves in ten minutes. Either play continues until the end of the session, or one of the players sacrifices time on his clock.

Richard Thursby wrote:... the rule passed is as follows:

"Rules of Play 6a For matches played at Athenaeum, 36 Endell Street, WC2, the following additional provision shall apply:

The One Session format at this venue shall be 36 moves in 90 minutes plus 15 minute Quickplay Finish, unless the visiting Match Captain notifies the home Match Captain, when team lists are exchanged, that on specified board(s) in that match the standard One Session format, as defined in Rule 5 above, shall apply. Starting time for all games shall be 6.45pm. Time in Normal Format games shall be called at 9.50pm."

I presume Richard has copied and pasted from an email or document and that this was the original motion.

This being so, the change is ineffable. There could be two playing sessions on the one night. At ten to ten, a captain or his nominee calls time. Those playing the long session will be in the middle of a time scramble, there being twenty-five playing minutes left. They could well do without the distraction. Even worse for a captain playing the longer session.

I gather this regressive motion was not tabled by Athenaeum.

David Gilbert wrote:From next season games played at Athenaeum's home venue, the default will be 36 moves in 90 minutes then a 15 minute quickplay finish.

Jonathan Rogers wrote:If in fact the only consequence is to do away with adjournments...

Richard Thursby wrote:The rule change is specifically for the one session format at Athenaeum...

So which is it: a compulsory quickplay finish on all boards - as stated by David and implied by Jonathan; or, an alternative format for quickplay finishes, which, in division 1, are the default on odd-numbered boards, as stated by Richard?

Quickplay finishes are not obligatory.

I have been checking with my spy network. Apparently Wad G. were unable to bring in enough players from further afield and needed to be more competitive. I favour playing stronger opponents, but not at the expense of worsening the playing conditions, which is what we have here.

It is best to wait for what is published on the London League website (in the past what has been written there has not always been an accurate reflection of what was passed at the AGM, although that was under a previous regime). I have been told, however, that what Richard has produced here is in accord with what the club that was pressurised to table this motion believe to be the case.

Simon Spivack wrote:Quickplay finishes are not obligatory.

I have been checking with my spy network. Apparently Wad G. were unable to bring in enough players from further afield and needed to be more competitive. I favour playing stronger opponents, but not at the expense of worsening the playing conditions, which is what we have here.

It is best to wait for what is published on the London League website (in the past what has been written there has not always been an accurate reflection of what was passed at the AGM, although that was under a previous regime). I have been told, however, that what Richard has produced here is in accord with what the club that was pressurised to table this motion believe to be the case.

The revised rules on the London League website are now contradictory, since the clause about Athenaeum:

6(a) The playing session for all matches played at the Athenaeum at 36 Endell Street, WC2 shall be three hours and thirty minutes, starting at 6.45 pm. with a time control of thirtysix moves in ninety minutes and the game shall be adjourned if unfinished at the end of the session. If opposing players in a game agree prior to the completion of white's second move the time control for that game shall be thirtysix moves in ninety minutes followed by a fifteen minute quickplay finish.

with no mention of "default formats" seems to remove the "odd board/even board" rule in the first division.

Richard Bates wrote: The revised rules on the London League website are now contradictory, since the clause about Athenaeum:

6(a) The playing session for all matches played at the Athenaeum at 36 Endell Street, WC2 shall be three hours and thirty minutes, starting at 6.45 pm. with a time control of thirtysix moves in ninety minutes and the game shall be adjourned if unfinished at the end of the session. If opposing players in a game agree prior to the completion of white's second move the time control for that game shall be thirtysix moves in ninety minutes followed by a fifteen minute quickplay finish.

with no mention of "default formats" seems to remove the "odd board/even board" rule in the first division.

I don't believe that what is on the London League website has been updated to reflect the new rules. In his post at noon last Thursday Richard Thursby gave a new 6a. The bottom of http://www.lcl.streamlinenettrial.co.uk/rop.htm still has the old "Effective from September 2009" and the wording before it does not seem to have changed.

In Plain Words Ernest Gowers discussed the considerable difficulty of writing rules and laws unambiguously. He indicated that a UK court, for instance, should take the literal meaning of the text, not what Parliament intended. In chess the situation is rather different. So many rules and such are poorly drafted, it only works because of the goodwill of the majority of participants, who accept the rulings handed down.

Motions tabled to AGMs are not always done in a manner that allows a quick excision and replacement. Even when it is possible, it is better to take some time to look for what might be affected elsewhere.

Angus French wrote:So which is it: a compulsory quickplay finish on all boards - as stated by David and implied by Jonathan; or, an alternative format for quickplay finishes, which, in division 1, are the default on odd-numbered boards, as stated by Richard?

I'd read through the thread more than once without beginning to understand the position. So I asked my club captain, Bill Linton, who is on the London League Committee, if he could tell me what change had actually been made.

Here is Bill's clear reply.

"The rule now is that 'slowplay' games revert to a 3-hour session as anywhere else, but quickplay games are 36 moves in 90 mins unless the visiting captain requests otherwise for (a) particular board(s), when it reverts to 30 in 75. It didn't strike me at the time but as far as I can recall there is no provision for Athenaeum players to ask for the shorter version!"

[Both quickplay versions then conclude with a 15 minute quickplay finish - DRS]

This whole affair is the result of pressure from the League Secretary, the Wad of Wad Green. The Wads came to our venue and moaned like b*stards that they couldn't get an earlier train home to the depths of Cambridgeshire, Lincolnshire, Wiltshire or wherever the hell it was that they were bussed in from; it was made clear that if we didn't relent for that particular match last season that the rules would be changed to penalise us. We gave the Wads what they wanted for that match, but they f*cked us over regardless. That worse playing conditions have been foisted on the one club that was able to offer a longer playing session is in my view scandalous, and a clear indication that some of those organising chess don't give a monkey's toss about the players at all, but simply relish the fiat that they have usurped. Frankly, just FIDE writ small.