BUCA Championships

[Mike Truran]

Changing tack back again......I've emailed Nigel at Lawrence's suggestion.

Congratulations to Bath - and to Alex for reconvening BUCA.

[Richard Bates]

I think I rest my case.

On the basis that little or no sense is to be expected from the ECF on the subject, I have emailed FIDE to ask what their expectation of local non-FIDE rated leagues in individual member countries is. Probably the triumph of hope over experience, but you never know......

I don't really understand your position, Mike. You started off complaining that we in England were craven in acquiescing to whatever silly rule came out of FIDE. Then when presented with examples of leagues which certainly do not acquiesce you complain that they are acting outside of their authority!

FIDE have no jurisdiction over non-FIDE rated games, so i don't see why they should have the remotest interest in what local leagues or others choose to do. Just as they have no interest in the conduct of blindfold chess, "advanced chess" (man and computer combined), Fischer-random chess, or any other variant, including allowing the King to move two squares. Whether the ECF or local leagues choose to apply the mobile phone rule outside of FIDE rated competition is entirely down to them. And if your own league chooses to, as is their right, and you don't like it, then you will have to campaign for them to change their minds.

[Neill Cooper]

FIDE have no jurisdiction over non-FIDE rated games.

But FIDE make the Laws of Chess. I have heard it said that" losing if your mobile rings" is as much a rule of chess as, say, "touch piece move a piece".

More importantly, congratulations to all on successfully restarting BUCA

[Alex Holowczak]

But FIDE make the Laws of Chess. I have heard it said that" losing if your mobile rings" is as much a rule of chess as, say, "touch piece move a piece".

Which is as much a rule as having a zero minute default time, but everyone is seemingly willing to override that.

I had queried before on here as to why we were allowed to override some rules, but not others, but was told that it wasn't really a problem. I'm glad others have finally realised what I was getting at.

[Alex Holowczak]

Anyhoo...

Thanks to a variety of people for their assistance with all this:

Adam Raoof for helping with setting it up.
Mike Truran for finding a free venue and looking after the finances for us while we set up our own account.
Michael Bennett for helping to set up the website.
David Clayton for general advice on the competition.
Tim Dickinson and Katie Smith for giving up their weekend to be arbiters.
Oxfordshire CCA for providing the equipment (and the gentleman who looked after it for us, whose name escapes me...).

[Adam Raoof]

Anyhoo...

Thanks to a variety of people for their assistance with all this:

Adam Raoof for helping with setting it up.
Mike Truran for finding a free venue and looking after the finances for us while we set up our own account.
Michael Bennett for helping to set up the website.
David Clayton for general advice on the competition.
Tim Dickinson and Katie Smith for giving up their weekend to be arbiters.
Oxfordshire CCA for providing the equipment (and the gentleman who looked after it for us, whose name escapes me...).

Ian Brooke?

Thanks to you for taking the trouble, Alex! Can you report here how the Sunday morning elections went, if they went at all? Sunday AM is never a great time to make decisions

[Alex Holowczak]

Can you report here how the Sunday morning elections went, if they went at all? Sunday AM is never a great time to make decisions

Not Ian Brooke... I think it was Tom Williams? All I know is one of my team and Tim left to get them while I was talking to their person on the ground.

Five people turned up to the AGM (9 expected) at 10am. Queen Mary's arrived late, and Durham's minibus broke down, meaning their captain was late (he had run down half of Woodstock Road just to get here to tell us they would be late)! (Their round 4 games were hence delayed by 10 minutes.)

The constitution was ratified.

I was elected as President unopposed. A friend of mine, Sam Doran, was elected as Treasurer. No Secretary was elected. Given his/her main job is to look after trophies, this is not really a problem at the moment (we don't have any). Sam is fairly computer-savvy, so will be able to link it up. His Dad is an account, so will no doubt provide assistance if needs be.

We discussed the lack of trophies, mentioned other tournament ideas and whether they would be popular, whether they were happy with the facilities etc.

No one volunteered to put the games in a PGN file though, so I think I'll gather some friends together one weekend and go through them together.

[Eoin Devane]

It was indeed Tom Williams.

[Alex Holowczak]

It was indeed Tom Williams.

Ah, OK then. That many people were in the e-mail sequence, I couldn't work out what the result was...

[Mike Truran]

Richard

I think if you reread the posts you will find that it was Sean rather than me who raised the London League non-acquiscence point. I do accept however that my original "without the permission of the arbiter" point was based on a (somewhat hopeful) interpretation of FIDE's position which Sean rightly corrected. I have revisited the FIDE handbook and conclude that the mobile phone point is included by FIDE in the rules of chess without any possibility of derogation, and that therefore your point as to whether FIDE do or don't have an interest in non-FIDE rated games is (a) correct, and (b) irrelevant.

Alex

The FIDE mobile phone rule is included in the laws of chess and seemingly allows no exceptions (see above). The FIDE default rule is also included in the laws of chess but specifically allows local derogation - see below:

Any player who arrives at the chessboard after the start of the session shall lose the game. Thus the default time is 0 minutes. The rules of a competition may specify otherwise.

[Sean Hewitt]

But FIDE make the Laws of Chess. I have heard it said that" losing if your mobile rings" is as much a rule of chess as, say, "touch piece move a piece".

Which is as much a rule as having a zero minute default time, but everyone is seemingly willing to override that.

I had queried before on here as to why we were allowed to override some rules, but not others, but was told that it wasn't really a problem. I'm glad others have finally realised what I was getting at.

The answer is quite simple Alex. The laws allows some flexibility in certain instances - as an example

6.6a - Any player who arrives at the chessboard after the start of the session shall lose the game. Thus the default time is 0 minutes. The rules of a competition may specify otherwise.

whilst in other circumstances there is no flexibility whatsoever

12.3 - During play the players are forbidden to make use of any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse on another chessboard. Without the permission of the arbiter a player is forbidden to have a mobile phone or other electronic means of communication in the playing venue, unless they are completely switched off. If any such device produces a sound, the player shall lose the game. The opponent shall win.

As a meerkat might say, simples!

[Alex Holowczak]

Fair enough, then. I guess we'll have to stick to it, then.

[Mike Truran]

Hence my email to FIDE - and separately to Nigel under the following FIDE provision, since we're all busy quoting legislation:

14.1

Member federations may ask FIDE to give an official decision about problems relating to the Laws of Chess.

Sean - nice to see us in perfect agreement! (although you were less long-winded).

[Neill Cooper]

Which is as much a rule as having a zero minute default time, but everyone is seemingly willing to override that.

The difference is in the Laws of Chess, which allow competition rules to replace the zero default time but not the sound from a mobile:

6.6 a. Any player who arrives at the chessboard after the start of the session shall lose the game. Thus the default time is 0 minutes. The rules of a competition may specify otherwise.

12.3b If any such device produces a sound, the player shall lose the game.

[Roger de Coverly]

The difference is in the Laws of Chess, which allow competition rules to replace the zero default time but not the sound from a mobile:

The USCF for example have a rule book which completely replaces the FIDE rules in their domestic competitions. Many of the USCF rules seem pretty silly though.

The zero default time opt-out allowed by FIDE was essentially a split vote and there are (non-players) with influence in FIDE who support the zero option. Some would go further and introduce monetary penalties for late arrival.

There is a case of sorts for the ECF to follow the USCF and introduce either directly or indirectly through the Chess Arbiters Association its own domestic Laws of Chess. The more stupidities that FIDE introduce, the stronger the case.