Counties and clubs

[MJMcCready]

Which counties have clubs outside their county borders in them and what is the main reason for that? In Bedfordshire we have Milton Keynes & Open University (before that Bletchley), and more recently Northampton also who were in our league for decades, mainly because our league was more competitive. Is it common nationwide for county leagues to have clubs from other counties in them? Some examples would be help thanks.

[Matthew Turner]

Trowbridge (Wiltshire) play in the Somerset League

I think this is so their players get more games (they play in the Wiltshire league too)

[MJMcCready]

Trowbridge (Wiltshire) play in the Somerset League

I think this is so their players get more games (they play in the Wiltshire league too)

Ah okay thanks, well at least its very close to Somerset, so not much travelling involved I assume?

[Dragoljub Sudar]

There will be lots of clubs like this. I guess most will be due to ease of travel and/or to give members more games. If a club is near a border between two counties it might choose to play in more than one league.

For example:-

Worksop, in north Nottinghamshire, play in Yorkshire and I can't remember when (if) they last played in the Notts League.

Grantham, in Lincolnshire, have played in the Notts League for over 50 years.

Long Eaton, in Derbyshire, played in both Notts and Derby until they folded after Lockdown.

Burton, in Staffordshire, have played in the Derby League for many years.

[MJMcCready]

So its quite common nationwide then?

[MartinCarpenter]

Yes. Counties, especially the historical ones, aren't very well matched to modern population densities. Chess leagues naturally tend to follow the latter!

The Manchester league say is an thorough going mixture county wise even if you count Greater Manchester as one. There's still some clubs fairly explicitly from Lancashire, Derbyshire, Cheshire etc joining in. I don't think there's any clubs from the slivers of Yorkshire W of the pennines.....

[Matthew Turner]

Trowbridge (Wiltshire) play in the Somerset League

I think this is so their players get more games (they play in the Wiltshire league too)

Ah okay thanks, well at least its very close to Somerset, so not much travelling involved I assume?

Trowbridge play in the Somerset West League, so that's fine, but they also play in the Somerset Cup. If they get drawn against Sedgemoor (Bridgwater) or Taunton that is quite some travelling distance.

[David Gilbert]

So its quite common nationwide then?

Indeed. Hastings play in the Kent League.

All sorts of teams play in the busy Croydon League - some are even based in Croydon!

[Kevin Thurlow]

Surrey had RAE Farnborough (Hampshire) and there are lots of teams with London postcodes. I think Crystal Palace might actually be in Kent? Streatham, Battersea etc are South of the Thames and were probably in Surrey at one stage in their history. There was a Kent club about 15 years ago, but I cannot remember who that was.

[Peter Ackley]

Bourne End (Bucks) plays in the Berkshire League and the Bucks League. Chesterfield (Derbyshire) plays in the Sheffield League and the Derby and District League. The Doncaster League has Barnsley in it

In the first two cases I think it's proximity to clubs which are in the "other" county/area just as much as giving people extra games (the last case is more the Doncaster league has a low number of teams and needs more). That and journey times. I remember from my London days you'd sometimes end up going into and out of London to play a match just down the road (if you did not drive).

As you say Bucks is especially interesting as the top-half of Bucks (eg Milton Keynes) don't play in the Bucks League (due, I think, to the time it takes to get across Bucks, especially in rush hour).

[Mike Gunn]

Surrey had RAE Farnborough (Hampshire) and there are lots of teams with London postcodes. I think Crystal Palace might actually be in Kent? Streatham, Battersea etc are South of the Thames and were probably in Surrey at one stage in their history. There was a Kent club about 15 years ago, but I cannot remember who that was.

The Surrey chess area is now defined by postcodes and goes right up to the Thames in central London as did county Surrey in 1883. The same is true of the other London metropolitan counties (Kent, Essex and Middlesex). There was no London County Council when the county chess organisations were set up, of course. Clubs outside the actual (defined) Surrey area can apply to join (and have been admitted historically and in the more recent past).

[Mick Norris]

Yes. Counties, especially the historical ones, aren't very well matched to modern population densities. Chess leagues naturally tend to follow the latter!

The Manchester league say is an thorough going mixture county wise even if you count Greater Manchester as one. There's still some clubs fairly explicitly from Lancashire, Derbyshire, Cheshire etc joining in. I don't think there's any clubs from the slivers of Yorkshire W of the pennines.....

Glossop have applied to join the Manchester League

Eccles have left the Bolton League for the Warrington League; there's lots of leagues to choose from round here (and there's an attempt to revive the Bury & Rochdale League)

[Reg Clucas]

Much of it may be historical, dating back to the county border reorganisation in the 1970s.

[Peter Ackley]

Some of it may well be but I like to think it's more people in chess using common sense, rather than taking a "League of Gentlemenesque" view of "this is a local league for local people". Despite Chesterfield being in the same county as the Derby League we field more teams and more players in the Yorkshire-based Sheffield League.

[MJMcCready]

Do we actually have any counties that don't have a league of their own?