Clock Bangers
-
- Posts: 2226
- Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 6:33 pm
Re: Clock Bangers
Derek, have you ever played with digital clocks?
-
- Posts: 1932
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm
Re: Clock Bangers
I could be wrong, and if so I'm sure one of our expert arbiters will correct me, but I don't think that "pressing the timer without making an actual move" constitutes an illegal move. Hence there's no "illegal move penalty" although an arbiter may decide to penalise under law 12.9.John Upham wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 2:12 pmYou would be well within your rights to claim an illegal move penalty since pressing the timer without making an actual move would incur such a penalty.Ian Paternoster wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:53 pmI was in a tournament once, where the player opposite me punched his clock before moving his piece. I mentioned the incident to the captain, only to be told, get on with the game and stop moaning.
-
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2024 4:33 am
Re: Clock Bangers
I went on to win the match. The club captain was weak at making decisions, and was one reason I gave up chess for over 20 years. My recent resurgence in chess is mainly due to being Semi-retired and wanting to keep my brain cells active.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:21 amI could be wrong, and if so I'm sure one of our expert arbiters will correct me, but I don't think that "pressing the timer without making an actual move" constitutes an illegal move. Hence there's no "illegal move penalty" although an arbiter may decide to penalise under law 12.9.John Upham wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 2:12 pmYou would be well within your rights to claim an illegal move penalty since pressing the timer without making an actual move would incur such a penalty.Ian Paternoster wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:53 pmI was in a tournament once, where the player opposite me punched his clock before moving his piece. I mentioned the incident to the captain, only to be told, get on with the game and stop moaning.
-
- Posts: 1758
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:52 pm
Re: Clock Bangers
You are! It is an illegal move.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:21 amI could be wrong, ..., but I don't think that "pressing the timer without making an actual move" constitutes an illegal move.
See 7.5.3 and 7.5.5 in the Laws of Chess
Can you tell I've just done the first FIDE IA Seminar?
-
- Posts: 1932
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm
Re: Clock Bangers
I stand corrected. Am I right in believing that those are relatively new laws, perhaps introduced in the 1/1/2023 revision?Alex McFarlane wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 6:16 amYou are! It is an illegal move.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:21 amI could be wrong, ..., but I don't think that "pressing the timer without making an actual move" constitutes an illegal move.
See 7.5.3 and 7.5.5 in the Laws of Chess
Can you tell I've just done the first FIDE IA Seminar?
-
- Posts: 1758
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:52 pm
Re: Clock Bangers
0/2 I'm afraid. This is the third version of the Laws that it has appeared in.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 6:59 amAm I right in believing that those are relatively new laws, perhaps introduced in the 1/1/2023 revision?
-
- Posts: 7262
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
- Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Re: Clock Bangers
Recently I have been informed by the ECF that they wish to elevate my arbiter status to Level 2.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:21 amI could be wrong, and if so I'm sure one of our expert arbiters will correct me,
I'm not sure if that constitutes being one of Michael Gove's experts (of which there are too many according to the Levelling Down secretary) but I do keep myself availed of law changes rather than speculating. Of course, you weren't to know that.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess
-
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:17 pm
Re: Clock Bangers
Yes in league matches and they are fine except that they are annoying to set up . After 34 moves it's supposed to add on the extra time but I don't think it adds it until the first lot has run out. (1.25 mins for 34 moves then 20 added). If someone say forgets to press their clock and we move on 2 moves then the clock will still think it's a move behind.
-
- Posts: 1932
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm
Re: Clock Bangers
I'm sure you're an admirable arbiter, John. A month ago, when the subject was covered on this forum and reference made to https://en.chessbase.com/post/illegal-m ... gularities. I seem to have known the correct answer so I'll put my incompetence here down to incipient old age. Variation not covered in the ChessBase piece - your opponent is away from the board with his clock running when his neighbour, forgetting which clock is which, makes a move and stops your opponent's clock in error. With your clock now running, what's the correct course?John Upham wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:15 amRecently I have been informed by the ECF that they wish to elevate my arbiter status to Level 2.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:21 amI could be wrong, and if so I'm sure one of our expert arbiters will correct me,
I'm not sure if that constitutes being one of Michael Gove's experts (of which there are too many according to the Levelling Down secretary) but I do keep myself availed of law changes rather than speculating. Of course, you weren't to know that.
(Lol, I think I know the answer but would hate to be accused again of speculation!).
-
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:17 pm
Re: Clock Bangers
everyone involved is given a dry slap.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 2:32 pmI'm sure you're an admirable arbiter, John. A month ago, when the subject was covered on this forum and reference made to https://en.chessbase.com/post/illegal-m ... gularities. I seem to have known the correct answer so I'll put my incompetence here down to incipient old age. Variation not covered in the ChessBase piece - your opponent is away from the board with his clock running when his neighbour, forgetting which clock is which, makes a move and stops your opponent's clock in error. With your clock now running, what's the correct course?John Upham wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:15 amRecently I have been informed by the ECF that they wish to elevate my arbiter status to Level 2.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:21 amI could be wrong, and if so I'm sure one of our expert arbiters will correct me,
I'm not sure if that constitutes being one of Michael Gove's experts (of which there are too many according to the Levelling Down secretary) but I do keep myself availed of law changes rather than speculating. Of course, you weren't to know that.
(Lol, I think I know the answer but would hate to be accused again of speculation!).
-
- Posts: 7262
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
- Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Re: Clock Bangers
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess
-
- Posts: 21350
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Clock Bangers
If you read the manual carefully, it can be done to add the time at the right move count for the DGT 2010 model anyway. Arbiters don't like doing it that way because of the hazard of extra or missed clock presses. It's not helped that whilst the clock always knows how many times the counter has been pressed, it doesn't display it.Derek Sinclair wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 2:30 pmAfter 34 moves it's supposed to add on the extra time but I don't think it adds it until the first lot has run out. (1.25 mins for 34 moves then 20 added).
As a consequence, many leagues have switched either to move rates of "all moves in half the session time" or some version of initial time plus increment. 80 minutes plus 10 seconds a move is quite popular.
-
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:17 pm
Re: Clock Bangers
Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:52 pmIf you read the manual carefully, it can be done to add the time at the right move count for the DGT 2010 model anyway. Arbiters don't like doing it that way because of the hazard of extra or missed clock presses. It's not helped that whilst the clock always knows how many times the counter has been pressed, it doesn't display it.Derek Sinclair wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 2:30 pmAfter 34 moves it's supposed to add on the extra time but I don't think it adds it until the first lot has run out. (1.25 mins for 34 moves then 20 added).
As a consequence, many leagues have switched either to move rates of "all moves in half the session time" or some version of initial time plus increment. 80 minutes plus 10 seconds a move is quite popular.
I won't be the only one messing with the clock in my league match. I'll just turn up as normal and use the clock same as everyone else. Not worth the effort
-
- Posts: 21350
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Clock Bangers
It's the club secretary or match captain that would set up the clocks for the season. Once set, they stay that way. Mind you it could be a headache if you play in two leagues each with non standard rates in the eyes of DGT.Derek Sinclair wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:45 pmI won't be the only one messing with the clock in my league match. I'll just turn up as normal and use the clock same as everyone else. Not worth the effort
-
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:17 pm
Re: Clock Bangers
6 clocks per match, about 8 matches per season, 1st team and 2nd team. Everyone is doing the clocks in this way, can't exactly rock the boat when I turn up 5-10 mins before the league match is about to start. Just going to have to let it be.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:47 pmIt's the club secretary or match captain that would set up the clocks for the season. Once set, they stay that way. Mind you it could be a headache if you play in two leagues each with non standard rates in the eyes of DGT.Derek Sinclair wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:45 pmI won't be the only one messing with the clock in my league match. I'll just turn up as normal and use the clock same as everyone else. Not worth the effort